US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

Simple.

No not simple. After the merger the company did a huge international expansion, international flights require more crew members, it's not attrition that has driven the east movement. After the merger operating costs went way up (east costs about twice of awa) making west flying unprofitable. During fuel crisis company shrunk west 10% because of this new higher cost. Fact 1/3 of e-190 seats belong west, same for ata 757. Fact awa work rules applied east would require 400 new pilots east, fact 27 out of 30 contract sections were finished 4 years ago.

 

[Pi brat]

Why don't you tell us what you think the court will do? I'll start, I believe they won't answer the first two counts, and answer 3 count only ( whether the company can be immune) and the answer will be that the company cannot be immune.

I really don't have any idea what they will do. CB53 is right, each side will see each other in court, it's just wasn't much of an answer to BS's post. The one thing I feel strongly about is that unless some unseen event takes place we are years away from a settlement.

 

[Pi brat]

No not simple. After the merger the company did a huge international expansion, international flights require more crew members, it's not attrition that has driven the east movement. After the merger operating costs went way up (east costs about twice of awa) making west flying unprofitable. During fuel crisis company shrunk west 10% because of this new higher cost. Fact 1/3 of e-190 seats belong west, same for ata 757. Fact awa work rules applied east would require 400 new pilots east, fact 27 out of 30 contract sections were finished 4 years ago.

Wrong. Even with the IROs and EMBs, the east is smaller than on 5/19/05. We've been over that before. Parker or Kirby one addressed the cost issue and said that they east costs didn't migrate to the west and that a west pilot, flying a west airplane on a former west route doesn't cost much more, ex. fuel. What happened is that the west was profitable(off and on) at $30-$35 dollar a barrel oil, not possible at current rates. You are correct, you are owed the seats, again when we have a joint contract. Probably right about the 400 pilots, but a big part of that was raising east vacation and I believe the company wanted a slow increase in that. The non-closed out sections were the biggies!

Very Simple-ratified joint contract, and that is still a long way off, IMHO.

 

[fodase]

Very Simple-ratified joint contract, and that is still a long way off, IMHO.

It will never happen under usapa. A merger or bankruptcy will happen first.

 

[Black Swan]

Well gee, Cleary's stepping on his crank as fast as he can. I can hardly ask him to do more





That's very big of you, and you would be welcome. Not irreplaceably necessary, but welcome.

Very amusing when you attack and vilify Mike Cleary. Let me tell you what Cleary has done with the LOA 93 pay issue. The filing was justified and a stroke of genius. It creates multiple issues for the company, none with a good outcome. All will force a negotiating position. A win for the East? The company pays. The west goes ballistic, and demands same. If they pay west? Then east can go for west contract from yrs ago.If they don't pay west? Labor unrest will break out. If East loses? The east pilots will not stand for LOA 93 much longer, things get much worse on labor fronts across the board. West pilots, as much as they say they have a good deal, face the fact they actually have the second worst contract in the industry. They will not wait much longer either. East loses? 6% kicks in, and then the 3% yr. over yr. Still not good enough, there will be issues. Every outcome does not bode well for Parker. Cleary, has given a huge dilemma to Parker. Mike Cleary has done a beautiful job with LOA 93, whatever the outcome. It is the catalyst that gets every pot boiling in the company. East and west.

 

[Pi brat]

It will never happen under usapa. A merger or bankruptcy will happen first.

Maybe, I don't know the future, but for now that is what it will take to move on. And as Aquagreen said, no damage. Separate ops as called for by the TA.

 

[luvn737s]

Cleary has done nothing except poison the negotiating pool so that status quo remains at the expense of the west pilots. Unity is the only source of heat to boil any of the company's pots, and Cleary can't even figure out how to rub two sticks together.

Wake up BS! Winning is more than just not losing, or has no one ever bothered to explain that to you.

 

[luvn737s]

You have your view but your not in command of the aircraft hence you don't know what you're talking about. You're just pissed because you don't like USAPA and that is a fact.

You sound like you'll be a real treat to fly with if they've successfully dumbed down the training program to actually allow you to try you hand at the "COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT".

And if you find a benevolent Check Airman that chooses to forgive what you've helped do to his career.

Yeah, as you say GOOD LUCK!

 

[Pi brat]

so that status quo remains at the expense of the west pilots.

Hmmm, I'm getting mixed signals here! :blink: Prechil keeps telling us to enjoy LOA 93 and some westie the other day was singing the praises of separate ops. Which is it?

 

[Pi brat]

You sound like you'll be a real treat to fly with if they've successfully dumbed down the training program to actually allow you to try you hand at the "COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT".

And if you find a benevolent Check Airman that chooses to forgive what you've helped do to his career.

Yeah, as you say GOOD LUCK!

2011, one hot summer, tempers are rising.

East check airman don't play games like that. Are you accusing them of that? Do west? I seriously doubt it. I've heard they are all professionals.

 

[luvn737s]

The damage you do is only to yourself because you don't believe in safety, you believe in final and binding.

The record of safety at east and west respectively, attributable to pilot error stands as testimony to the degree to which safety is observed, not just given lip service.

However while one side of your mouth shouts alarms about safety, the other side brags about the quick upgrades of the newhires, some of whom may not have flown as PIC in anything larger than a Seminole. And having never been in COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT, as you 've said, they don't really know too much.

Does that sound very safe to you?

 

[luvn737s]

Hmmm, I'm getting mixed signals here! :blink: Prechil keeps telling us to enjoy LOA 93 and some westie the other day was singing the praises of separate ops. Which is it?

Go back to your nap. We'll wake you up when your clue arrives. They said 4-6 weeks for delivery 😀

 

[Pi brat]

Go back to your nap. We'll wake you up when your clue arrives. They said 4-6 weeks for delivery 😀

Naw, nap out of the way, too hot and humid outside, so I will just stay here and annoy you! B)

 

[end_of_alpa]

You sound like you'll be a real treat to fly with if they've successfully dumbed down the training program to actually allow you to try you hand at the "COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT".

And if you find a benevolent Check Airman that chooses to forgive what you've helped do to his career.

Yeah, as you say GOOD LUCK!

Fortunately it won't be a West check airman because, according to you I've wrecked his career by not voting for a CBA so he will have just cause to bust me. Don't worry I'll be in CLT and I'll be letting the training command know that you and your West friends purposely know who I am and are therefore going to do all they can to keep me from upgrading. That says alot about the West check airmen. Bob Skinner will like to know, I'll fill him in as well.

If you're referring to an East check airman I am confident I would be in good company with fellow professional pilots who above all this and therefore that point is moot.

It certainly sounds like you're a real treat to fly with, sonny. Too bad, so sorry for you. I will be in

"COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT".

unlike you, who is on furlough.


Good luck.

 

[end_of_alpa]

It will never happen under usapa. A merger or bankruptcy will happen first.

Your crystal ball(s) out again?