US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

Name the five judges please.

Wake, Tashima, Bybee, Graber and Silver.

Any and all of the above motions/rulings should have gone USAPA's way if they were correct in their legal theory that USAPA started with a fresh slate regarding seniority.

None of the rulings went their way. The only thing USAPA got was more time from Tashima and Graber. But what speaks volumes is that they had their chance right then to say that as a matter of federal law, seniority is completely an internal union matter and therefore USAPA cannot ever be in violation of its DFR by implementing a DOH list with regards to East and West.

That didn't happen. Tashima and Graber said we have to wait for the final product to then file a "painfully ripe" DFR case. That fact completely eviscerates USAPA's legal theory that they can do whatever they want regarding seniority. The elephant in the room that has not gone away and will never go away is the Nicolau - the product of an arbitration.

Should tell you something.

 

[cactusboy53]

Say "good-bye" to Eric and his good friend Harper from us.

Why would I say "good-bye" to Eric? Why would you imply that we should also say "good-bye" to Harper (I presume you are speaking of Martin Harper Esq.)?

Lots of :angry: anger :angry: in those last couple of posts of yours my friend. Leonidas is funded and moving along nicely protecting the seniority of the PHX based pilots (as per the . USAPA's little DOH cram down is going down a dead-end road. Seham knows it. Cleary knows it. Mowrey knows it and so do a bunch of lurkers on these boards. It is simply a matter of time (and perhaps not that much time left).

BTW, Eric is a great guy and is true pilot advocate. He is VERY well respected in our community. He is sharp, articulate and engaging. Before you start blathering about him further, perhaps you should take the time to meet him.

Chin up Sparky, it's gonna get better eventually.

 

[Black Swan]

Wake, Tashima, Bybee, Graber and Silver.

Any and all of the above motions/rulings should have gone USAPA's way if they were correct in their legal theory that USAPA started with a fresh slate regarding seniority.

None of the rulings went their way. The only thing USAPA got was more time from Tashima and Graber. But what speaks volumes is that they had their chance right then to say that as a matter of federal law, seniority is completely an internal union matter and therefore USAPA cannot ever be in violation of its DFR by implementing a DOH list with regards to East and West.

That didn't happen. Tashima and Graber said we have to wait for the final product to then file a "painfully ripe" DFR case. That fact completely eviscerates USAPA's legal theory that they can do whatever they want regarding seniority. The elephant in the room that has not gone away and will never go away is the Nicolau - the product of an arbitration.

Should tell you something.

Here is what it tells me, the fact you mention Wake. Wake blew your case for you. Just because he golfs with Bobby Baldocks Daddy, doesn t mean he can carry the day. Wake got SPANKED by the 9th! Silver is up next if she doesn t GET ON BOARD with things and tries to plow new ground like Wake. Seniority is internal. Silver better read up or she gets teed up.

 

[Black Swan]

"The elephant in the room that has not gone away and will never go away is the Nicolau - the product of an arbitration. " I will take the 9th s ruling for 10,000 Alex........

 

[aquagreen73s]

Silver is up next if she doesn t GET ON BOARD with things and tries to plow new ground like Wake. Seniority is internal. Silver better read up or she gets teed up.

Ok, take Judge Wake out of the equation. That still leaves Tashima, Graber and Bybee who unanimously passed on their opportunity to rule that seniority is a completely internal union matter such that the West pilots will never have a DFR claim, but they didn't. Hmmmm.

Then, Judge Silver could have said the same thing in her order last month: "Gee company, you're worried over nothing. You see, USAPA started with a clean slate when they became the bargaining agent. Seniority is an internal union matter and therefore, all you have to do is wait for the proposal to come from the union. No liability. Hence, I'm dismissing your claim for declaratory relief."

That didn't happen.

Another Hmmmmm.

 

[Black Swan]

Wake, Tashima, Bybee, Graber and Silver.

Any and all of the above motions/rulings should have gone USAPA's way if they were correct in their legal theory that USAPA started with a fresh slate regarding seniority.

None of the rulings went their way. The only thing USAPA got was more time from Tashima and Graber. But what speaks volumes is that they had their chance right then to say that as a matter of federal law, seniority is completely an internal union matter and therefore USAPA cannot ever be in violation of its DFR by implementing a DOH list with regards to East and West.

That didn't happen. Tashima and Graber said we have to wait for the final product to then file a "painfully ripe" DFR case. That fact completely eviscerates USAPA's legal theory that they can do whatever they want regarding seniority. The elephant in the room that has not gone away and will never go away is the Nicolau - the product of an arbitration.

Should tell you something.

Your interpretation, and it is not smart putting your thoughts, in their lack of comment. I ll take the decision they made as enough indication that they made their thoughts very clear when they said the Niclolau did not have to be the method. But if that is what you need to say, to KEEP THE DONATIONS Coming! Feel free.....................

 

[Black Swan]

Ok, take Judge Wake out of the equation. That still leaves Tashima, Graber and Bybee who unanimously passed on their opportunity to rule that seniority is a completely internal union matter such that the West pilots will never have a DFR claim, but they didn't. Hmmmm.

Then, Judge Silver could have said the same thing in her order last month: "Gee company, you're worried over nothing. You see, USAPA started with a clean slate when they became the bargaining agent. Seniority is an internal union matter and therefore, all you have to do is wait for the proposal to come from the union. No liability. Hence, I'm dismissing your claim for declaratory relief."

That didn't happen.

Another Hmmmmm.

Not their job to ruminate on these things. They rule in a very direct fashion, without wandering in dangerous areas like Wake. They didn't mention they were losing sleep either. HMMMMM. What are they required to take the opportunity to do???

 

[end_of_alpa]

Wake, Tashima, Bybee, Graber and Silver.

Any and all of the above motions/rulings should have gone USAPA's way if they were correct in their legal theory that USAPA started with a fresh slate regarding seniority.

None of the rulings went their way. The only thing USAPA got was more time from Tashima and Graber. But what speaks volumes is that they had their chance right then to say that as a matter of federal law, seniority is completely an internal union matter and therefore USAPA cannot ever be in violation of its DFR by implementing a DOH list with regards to East and West.

That didn't happen. Tashima and Graber said we have to wait for the final product to then file a "painfully ripe" DFR case. That fact completely eviscerates USAPA's legal theory that they can do whatever they want regarding seniority. The elephant in the room that has not gone away and will never go away is the Nicolau - the product of an arbitration.

Should tell you something.

It tells me the Supreme Court rulings do not favor your arguments. The problem with legal arguments is that they take time to develop, sometimes A LOT OF TIME. I don't doubt our issue is any different. I just know that the courts don't favor your position.

BTW, that "fact" that they must bargain in good faith. They are allowed a wide range of reasonableness. You may wish to refresh yourself with ALPA vs. O'Neill....I do not think you remember it well. As far as seniority, like any other section, neither dove tailing NOR end tailing has been found to be unreasonable, but discrimination and malice have been. You can say what you want, the courts don't support your arguments. See you in court, counselor.

Internal union dispute, that is what the Ninth said, please don't make me reprint it....it's on your website.

"Although absence of a CBA might be evidence of a DFR violation, if the violation were based on deliberate delay by the union, it is not evidence of a union’s improper preference of one seniority system over another.

As demonstrated by ALPA’s similar difficulties in reaching a CBA, the pilot groups, and individual pilots with their ratification/nonratification powers, are the major contributors to the absence of a CBA in these circumstances.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Bury that head of your DEEP in the sand!

The reality is: the Nicolau does not go away. The reason we have to wait for a final product is because "how" the union got to that final product will be analyzed, ergo the question USAPA is going to have to explain is WHY they got the result they did. That my friend invariably leads back to the majority's dissatisfaction with the Nicolau. Once already you had a federal judge a jury decide that deviating from an arbitration result because the majority did not like it was NOT a legitimate union objective.

We'll do it again in DFRII, and the company knows it. Hence, their declaratory action.

Believe what you want. I got two decades plus left. How much time do you have?

 

[luvthe9]

http://usairsucks.org/ Way to go Dougie!!! Also love our facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-Airways-Sucks/131712643528369?sk=wall Call Gary Kelly over at Southwest and get a few tips on how to run an airline.

 

[Pi brat]

it is a waste of bandwidth and time to continue to do so.

I will still come here and watch..............

Yes! So that means no more posts from you, right?

 

[Pi brat]

You're not a smart man, are you Forrest?

Hey luvn. Since you are so smart, would you know how I can turn a west crew? I've never done anything like that and need some advice from a smart guy, and I have a feeling you might know about how to plead to Doug.

I was in TPA the other day and there was a west AB sitting at the gate :45 minutes after departure time! Since it was after departure time they MUST be intentional delaying the flight. We can't have that. PM if necessary. Thanks!

 

[Pi brat]

You sound like you'll be a real treat to fly with if they've successfully dumbed down the training program to actually allow you to try you hand at the "COMMAND OF THE AIRCRAFT".

And if you find a benevolent Check Airman that chooses to forgive what you've helped do to his career.

Yeah, as you say GOOD LUCK!

Just curious. Have you been in COMMAND of an aircraft at AWA or US? Since you are questioning someone else's ability and all. Surely you wouldn't have done that if you yourself had not completed the training, all the way through left seat OE and sign off, of course.

 

[Pi brat]

I just don't want to keep hearing the pissing, whining, and moaning that you're not getting your way.

You shouldn't talk about your west brothers and sisters that way. They need a place to vent and I hear the hangar doesn't get much traffic these days.

 

[Pi brat]

Great. Pilot Terminations have begun due to non compliance of the Distance Learning deadline. Great Job USAPA!!! How much would anybody like to wager that ALL of the USAPA Leaders ignored their own advice and completed their training on time...all the while pushing others not to. No word on who it is just yet by Lyle Hogg was crystal clear in today's letter than some pilots are going down for this.

Is this the Union you wanted?

Do you KNOW USAPA leaders were behind this short sighted plan? Big accusation.