US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

Most F/Os I fly with only have one week of vacation, a third of mine, and little sick time. When have had no A320 C/Os in CLT several times in the last couple of months.

Are you serious? One week? And you only get three? Heck, I get 26 days and with PBS, I can put it all across two bid periods, have basically six weeks off. That's what I'm doing this summer. If I feel like it, I'll go onto the pilot trade board and pick up time from other pilots. It's a pretty good deal we got from C2004.

What was your other question. I missed it.

 

[Pi brat]

Are you serious? One week? And you only get three? Heck, I get 26 days and with PBS, I can put it all across two bid periods, have basically six weeks off. That's what I'm doing this summer. If I feel like it, I'll go onto the pilot trade board and pick up time from other pilots. It's a pretty good deal we got from C2004.

What was your other question. I missed it.

Hard to catch it with your head up your AXX.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I asked Aguagreen, do you have answer for him, carry his water?

Are you setting the rules now???

Most F/Os I fly with only have one week of vacation, a third of mine, and little sick time. When have had no A320 C/Os in CLT several times in the last couple of months.

You fly with a lot of junior F/O's then. I'm sure you knew that but couldn't help yourself - much better to use an example that isn't representative just to attempt to show the other person is wrong.

Yes, recalled furloughed and new hires have less vacation, but that not the majority of FO's is it? The majority of FO's have the same 3 weeks of vacation as the #1 captain in the system.

I think if you look, you'll also find that the lines set aside for training are FO lines - that's 18 less lines system-wide on the May bid. That argues for a few more captains than FO's but not many since the training lines vary from bid to bid.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

How about all the East claims of theft, various and sundry information supposedly in the file given to AOL, conspiracy to steal the data, identity theft, etc - none proven as fact by an investigation yet but that hasn't stopped most Easties from making those charges. I haven't noticed you jumping in with a "Why don't you wait for the evidence" or anything else. The Easties love to throw around charges as much as or more than the Westies. BTW, stating your opinion on the C18 is NOT "taking on" the posters that continue to claim they are guilty (Nosum being a prime example). Have you told East posters who continue to make those C18 calims of guilt that they're wrong? I think not.

Jim

You think not, that's for sure. Thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me a chance to show your disciples out west what most of out east already knew: You're full of it.

Here is my post #11517 from pg 1440:

"You know what guys? Unless there are posters on here that are USAPA officers/BPR memebers or AOL officers, none of us will have any effect on the C3 affair. Both USAPA and AOL are going to follow this to the end and use it for everything it's worth. It's just where we are. Why don't we stop trying the situation/people here and let the powers that be figure out what really happened and what to do about it?"

Here's a post from west poster lynrdskynrd thanking me, from page 1447:

"Thanks to Pi Brat, A320 Driver, and Zone5 for adding some reason and sanity to the 'investigation' issue. While some others are busy ginning up good stuff for all it's worth, it's nice to see that."


As for the C18, I have indeed taken on east posters about it. In the cockpit I have tried to tell everyone I've flown with about it and how I thought USAPA was wrong. I talked to Cleary, Seham and wrote to every member of the BPR to try and stop it. I talked to 3 of the C18 and tried to come up with a solution. I offered to go to the BPR on any of the C18 behalf and try to get them the deal that the guy that was released got. And here's a big one: When it became clear to me that they thought they had the upper hand and didn't want the suit to go away, I dropped it, as I was asked to do.

What did you do Jim?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Hard to catch it with your head up your AXX.

Dude, you need to stop with the emotion. Do you have a question or not?

 

[Pi brat]

Are you setting the rules now???



You fly with a lot of junior F/O's then. I'm sure you knew that but couldn't help yourself - much better to use an example that isn't representative just to attempt to show the other person is wrong.

Yes, recalled furloughed and new hires have less vacation, but that not the majority of FO's is it? The majority of FO's have the same 3 weeks of vacation as the #1 captain in the system.

I think if you look, you'll also find that the lines set aside for training are FO lines - that's 18 less lines system-wide on the May bid. That argues for a few more captains than FO's but not many since the training lines vary from bid to bid.

Jim

So, you agree with Agua that we are overstaffed on C/Os?

 

[Metroyet]

Of course you'd like for me to do the heavy lifting, what's new. Nope, you started it, fill us in. What was in their contract that allowed the arbitration? What was their pay relative to their peers? How did it end up? What was Kasher's logic?

Okay. Sure. Just one small, tinsey winsey little thing. You first.

What was in your contract that allowed for Seniority Integration to go to Arbirtration? Does it Matter?
What was your "seniority" not "longevity" relative to your peers?
How did it end up? How's it working out for you.

And best of all,

What was Nicalau's Logic? Because you obviously couldn't give a rats behind about what Nicolau's logic is...why NOW would you put so much emphasis and faith in Kasher's logic relative to the Alaska Contract Arbitration...where every single pilot, regardless of pay rate lost 40k a year for 4 years...all while Alaska was posting profits?
. This is the guy you picked to hear the hare brained LOA93 sham? Much luck with that!!

What's the future value of $160k over 20 years anyway?

Clearly you're on another typical USCABA style scavenger hunt whereby one SOME arbitrators in SOME situations are to be honored. Other's when you deem so, are senile.

The Only senility I find in the LOA Arbitration is the fact that your fake scab union was too stupid to know of Kasher's track record....just like how you Easties totally mis-interpreted Nic.s warnings to you.

 

[Pi brat]

Dude, you need to stop with the emotion. Do you have a question or not?

Use the back button if you can't miss the chance to throw a jab.

How about that '05 vs now staffing. How about some PROOF?

 

[Pi brat]

Okay. Sure. Just one small, tinsey winsey little thing. You first.

No luck Mr. I'm not a US pilot loudmouth. You brought it up, I called you on it, you first.

 

[Metroyet]

No luck Mr. I'm not a US pilot loudmouth. You brought it up, I called you on it, you first.

Who Cares? What's the point of a 2005 Arbitration?

Here's really all you need to know about Kasher and the Alaska Pilots; The rest is useless academia.

Alaska was turning a profit at the time.

Kasher Delivered every single cent, plus trips touching, bank Vacation, and more on a silver platter to the company.

Kasher took MORE than the company was even ASKING for.

Kasher delivered an Average PAYCUT for the pilots of a profitable airline of 26%. 34.3% was the highest.

This is the guy Cleary is banking on to deliver a HALF BILLION DOLLARS OF BACK PAY?!!

Right.

 

[Pi brat]

Who Cares?

Ah, there is the insightful analysis that I have come to except from you. How is your non-US carrier going?

 

[Phoenix]

"To be sure, the parties’ interest would be served by prompt resolution of the seniority dispute, but that is not the same as prompt resolution of the DFR claim. The present impasse, in fact, could well be prolonged by prematurely resolving the West Pilots’ claim judicially at this point. Forced to bargain for the Nicolau Award, any contract USAPA could negotiate would undoubtedly be rejected by its membership. By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified."--The 9th

Those who remember their grammar lessons will notice that "under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit" is one of two subordinate clauses that modify the bargaining to which USAPA is left by the 9th's decision. Try as one might to ignore it, the fact is that the force of this sentence is that USAPA is left to bargain with the company.

The 9th further made it clear that USAPA was left to bargain in order to resolve the seniority dispute (Addington hoped to persuade the 9th to deny USAPA the right to bargain), and made it clear that the NIC is undoubtedly an un-ratifiable bargaining position.

Not only is the NIC not required by the 9th, the 9th went further to acknowledge that it is "undoubtedly" a bargaining position that will be rejected.

It is illogical to suggest that the 9th warned USAPA that they would be guilty of a DFR if they fail to ratify the NIC while at the same time holding that the 9th announced that the NIC is impossible to ratify.

Bargain, baby, bargain. Wide range of reasonableness.

Bargain. Its a "hortatory." Have a great weekend. 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

So, you agree with Agua that we are overstaffed on C/Os?

Don't know. I haven't looked at the # of captain vs FO positions, have no idea if the reserves are all flying over guarantee and trips still need to be covered, or anything else. You asked for a reason why the East would have more captains than FO's and I supplied one that apparently wasn't to your liking. Besides, the FO's you fly with - junior or senior - don't affect the number of captains needed. That's a straw man argument.

It's hard to do much about the C18 from my seat in retirement. I'm a persona nongrata as far as USAPA is concerned. Can't even go to a BPR meeting. Glad you found one post where you said that it would be best to let the C3 issue lie until the results of any investigation came in. That's like you posting for Nosum to "take it easy" on me and has the same effect - nil, nada, zilch. How many times in the last few weeks have Easties kept making the same old claims, whether it was against the C18 or the C3? Have you replied specifically to each of those posts with your advice? Didn't think so.

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

Ah, there is the insightful analysis that I have come to except from you. How is your non-US carrier going?

It's great. I made about 140k last year from the right seat. Profit sharing was huge. The 17-20 days off help quite a bit too. See if it wasn't for our trip rigs, that wouldn't be possible. Luckily all the long Hawaii trips provide a lot of rig. Although their starting to get old. Thanks for asking.

Really. Why do you care about the Alaska Kasher details? I gave you very simple FACTS about that situation and you're ignoring them. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

The East has a long proud history of ignoring facts as presented to them right under their noses. Kasher is going to give you all the insight you're asking for here shortly...actually, he already has but Kim Jong Dipwad doesn't want you to know about it.

 

[mikey60]

http://www.reformusapa.com/
Just launched....
Constitutional Amendments
Tuesday, 12 April 2011 00:04 | Last Updated on Thursday, 14 April 2011 22:49 | | |


Coming soon: A Constitutional Amendment to amend the USAPA Constitution. This is needed to ensure representation for all under USAPA. As a result of the current West/East division brought on by the misuse of the union structure, USAPA is no position of ever fulfilling its role as a Collective Bargaining Agent for all US Airways pilots.

Some of the items that will be put forward will be:

1.Removing DOH from the constitution and replace it with the McCaskill Bond language. This merger occurred on May 19, 2005, USAPA took over on April 18, 2008 and this DOH language is preventing us from achieving a contract.

2.Reducing the 2/3rd’s requirement for Constitutional changes to a 3/5th’s or 60 percent requirement. All organizations need to modify their Constitutions from time to time and this will make it easier to make required modifications for the betterment of the organization.

3.Currently the Constitution allows the President to select Committee Members and we feel the BPR is better suited for this task so this section will be put forward for modification.

4.Three parties, the Company, the Representatives for the East and West pilots signed the Transition Agreement. USAPA is bound by this agreement and we will seek to memorialize that in the Constitution. That includes three West members to join three East members of the Negotiating (Advisory) Committee.

5.In the event of a Merger both sides are not properly represented therefore we will add an amendment to ensure the Merger Committee it staffed with an equal number of East and West Representatives.
These changes will go a long way to putting our past behind us and will enable USAPA to focus its energy and resources on achieving a much need contract.

Sincerely,

Ken Holmes

Mark Burman

From the site:

Dont forget:

1 for 2

3months vacation

100% pay raise

No fllying on weekends or holidays

Fish crew meals

A new CEO

No commuteing

Double pay for d/h's

Anything else Duphis?