US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

Let's see with NIC when a West Pilot comes East he/she gets "super seniority". With DOH when an East Pilot comes West he/she gets "super seniority". East has nearly 4 to 1 attrition over the West when age 65 "ripens". Apples to Oranges. ALPA Merger Policy Process did not address these issues. There it is in a nutshell. Yep, neither method is fair now is it? So maybe we should just use active time on each other's property to establish Seniority. The West has had furloughs in the past prior to 2005. Please correct me if I am wrong. So your active time will have to be adjusted, just as it would have to be on the East.

So in reality, there is NO fair way to do this. Separate Ops may be the only answer. Way too much venom between East and West to operate out of the Red and Yellow.

No my active time need not be adjusted as I was never furlolughed. This arguement no longer has a point. Management realizes that LCC today is not viable without a merger partner and no other airline in this country will even consider a merger here. The obvious selling of stock by management in these times should trigger some sense of reality however I am guessing that too is falling upon deaf ears. Seperate ops is of no value to the whole due large in part to the relative small size of this carrier. I just pray that it liquidates thus making more opportunities elsewhere. When you have to start all over should you chose to stay in this profession then and only then will it hit home. Thankfully I have a fall back career I hope you do too...

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No my active time need not be adjusted as I was never furlolughed. This arguement no longer has a point. Management realizes that LCC today is not viable without a merger partner and no other airline in this country will even consider a merger here. The obvious selling of stock by management in these times should trigger some sense of reality however I am guessing that too is falling upon deaf ears. Seperate ops is of no value to the whole due large in part to the relative small size of this carrier. I just pray that it liquidates thus making more opportunities elsewhere. When you have to start all over should you chose to stay in this profession then and only then will it hit home. Thankfully I have a fall back career I hope you do too...

AWA320

Better look for another one. Bad fiction writers are a dime a dozen.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In Theory Relative Position works ONLY when you have two identical entities that are to be meshed.

The old "relative position is only fair when it looks like DOH" argument.... Just like the "DOH is the only fair way unless we don't gain from it" argument.

Jim

 

[Leonidas]

With the nic the west's bottom pilot is a instant widebody international f/o. From an airlline with NO widebody flying!!! And you say this isn't a windfall? It only gets better as you go up the list.

The last awa fo is right next to the most junior east fo. Don't let the truth get in your way though.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yawn.

Same old stuff from the same old guy.

Please find a mirror.

Yawn.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I give up, Pi I hope you get everything want and deserve including the ability to not honor agreements and leap frog all you want. USAir for all intents and purposes is toast. East and west will NEVER work the same aircraft due to saftey concerns thus rendering this place a liability. No other airline would be stupid enough to even consider getting with usair and franky I hope it tanks. There wil be far more opportunities out there with lcc defunct... Best of luck with your future endeavors.

AWA320

WHOA there big fella,The EAST has been and always will be a valuable entity, as for the WEST well history be your guide, as for SAFETY it's an Art, nothing to GANDER at "SWEET PEE"! MM!

 

[AWA320]

WHOA there big fella,The EAST has been and always will be a valuable entity, as for the WEST well history be your guide, as for SAFETY it's an Art, nothing to GANDER at "SWEET PEE"! MM!

Hmmmmm lets see now shall we. Northwest is now strong in the South with DAL in ATL so that whips CLT. UAL is now stronger in the east with CAL in EWR not to mention the strong hold on Dulles and JFK. SWA is much much stonger in the east now with its feet in ATL and growing not to mention they WILL get more in Philly. So explain to me just how storng is little old LCC's east operation in todays environment????? Yeah I thought so!! I hope you too have a fall back career as the LCC song is just about over. Oldie will be selling insurance and remembering how it was in the old days when he USE to be a pilot!!!

Well off to meet with clients. Enjoy and please feel free to argue among yourselves

AWA320

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No my active time need not be adjusted as I was never furlolughed. This arguement no longer has a point. Management realizes that LCC today is not viable without a merger partner and no other airline in this country will even consider a merger here. The obvious selling of stock by management in these times should trigger some sense of reality however I am guessing that too is falling upon deaf ears. Seperate ops is of no value to the whole due large in part to the relative small size of this carrier. I just pray that it liquidates thus making more opportunities elsewhere. When you have to start all over should you chose to stay in this profession then and only then will it hit home. Thankfully I have a fall back career I hope you do too...

AWA320

I actually agree with your post from ," Management..................................................................of this carrier." Don't wish for liquidation some folks actually need this job, but the other ""ation " word is more likely (fragment). As for most of the EASTHOLES, we'll grab the bud and get a little more fishin in. MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hmmmmm lets see now shall we. Northwest is now strong in the South with DAL in ATL so that whips CLT. UAL is now stronger in the east with CAL in EWR not to mention the strong hold on Dulles and JFK. SWA is much much stonger in the east now with its feet in ATL and growing not to mention they WILL get more in Philly. So explain to me just how storng is little old LCC's east operation in todays environment????? Yeah I thought so!! I hope you too have a fall back career as the LCC song is just about over. Oldie will be selling insurance and remembering how it was in the old days when he USE to be a pilot!!!

Well off to meet with clients. Enjoy and please feel free to argue among yourselves

AWA320

Before you go you forgot to mention our customer service, balance sheet, fuel hedging strategy , and above all our crack management team, and oh SWA in PHX ! other than that you and STEVEN WOLFE, nail it, actually the only part you missed was OLDIE and myself will be able to spend more time going to NASCAR races and bikeweek in MYR! MM!

 

[cleardirect]

You were quoting an update without reading the whole filing either? Talk about spouting off without knowing what your talking about!, MM! 40watts

Doing what you do best. Making statements not based on facts. You have no idea if I have read the entire filing or not. BTW I have. Can you say the same?

Now 4 watt I quoted the usapa update. The update pointed to a single footnote to make a point that the filing did not make. Let me remind you the entire usapa update.

ALPA Agrees with USAPA on Non-Nicolau Seniority Option

As many of you may recall, litigation brought by a group of East pilots who previously flew for MidAtlantic is currently pending against ALPA before a federal court in the Eastern District of New York. In that matter, referred to as the Naugler case, the plaintiffs have alleged that ALPA knew of, and stipulated to, the introduction of an erroneous seniority list during the Nicolau arbitration proceedings.

Interestingly enough, ALPA has moved for summary judgment, and its current leading argument is that the case is not ripe for adjudication. ALPA, in furtherance of its ripeness argument, cites the Ninth Circuit’s Addington decision to support its assertion that "implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR." The importance of this admission cannot be overlooked. ALPA, the Union whose internal merger policy created the Nicolau Award, has now recognized in a federal court filing that not only is USAPA free to bargain towards a single CBA without Nicolau, but the non-inclusion of Nicolau in any future CBA does not automatically constitute a breach of USAPA’s duty of fair representation.

This comment can be found in ALPA’s reply brief in support of its motion for summary judgment (Docket 118 in the Naugler litigation, found in USAPA's Legal Library on the website).

Are you done trying to make a non existent point or would you like to continue making a fool of yourself?

 

[LSS]

Usapa has already lost at trial once so getting there again when ripeness is no longer an issue is an easy jump.
AWA320

Not necessarily Bucko... The fact that the Honorable Judge Wake did not toss the "not ripe" case in the beginning... really lends one to believe that the way he conducted the entire trial is called into question... so... as the old sayin goes... "DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THEY ARE HATCHED"!

 

[BoeingBoy]

"Not necessarily be" and "does not automatically" constitute a DFR is true. What the USAPA update fails to mention is the rest of the sentence from the 9th discussion of it's reasoning. That would be the (paraphrasing) "does not do the harm that the West fears". What does the West fear? That USAPA's solution may not protect their seniority as much as the Nic award So what the sentence from the 9th says is that as long as USAPA finds a solution that protects West seniority as much as the Nic award, there would be no DFR.

The obvious question, or elephant in the room, becomes what is the likelihood that USAPA will propose a non-Nic solution that gives the West the same protections as the Nic? So far it looks like that likelihood is nil - USAPA seems to be hoping that it's lopsided C&R's can somehow convince a jury that USAPA's solution is fair - a hope that's been shot down by one jury already.

Jim

 

[AWE Dog]

The last awa fo is right next to the most junior east fo. Don't let the truth get in your way though.

You better take a look.

 

[Leonidas]

You better take a look.

I did, you?

 

[sumadarson]

Seperate ops is of no value to the whole due large in part to the relative small size of this carrier. I just pray that it liquidates thus making more opportunities elsewhere. When you have to start all over should you chose to stay in this profession then and only then will it hit home. Thankfully I have a fall back career I hope you do too...

AWA320

You finally made it to depression, acceptance is your next stage soon. Hang on you are almost there.