US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nevergiveup]

Let me ask you easties this: Does the quote above accurately describe what usapa is attempting to do?

Well, they are trying to prevent the west from using a group of guys that are down on their luck as stepping stones to gain seniority without earning it!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Let me ask you easties this: Does the quote above accurately describe what usapa is attempting to do?

It describes what the "westies" are trying to do to the FORMERLY furloughed East pilots, to me by putting me junior to a seven year guy, which, BTW, I've never been furloughed, through an illegal mechanism called ALPA merger policy. You don't value them OR us. Keep suiing.

Pilots are the anathema of the industry. What a surprise. How pilots look at pilots? Here's and example:

"Pilots are a unique breed of people that are task and goal oriented men and women of action who possess an innate need to accomplish their objectives in a timely manner. Pilots do not do well with uncertainty and are not comfortable enduring multi-year legal battles."

Pilots are unique and NO OTHER PROFESSION have these attributes. HOGGWASH!! Maybe the PHX reps left out the first and most important word...for them....WEST!

How it SHOULD read:

WEST Pilots are a unique breed of people that are task and goal oriented men and women of action who possess an innate need to accomplish their objectives in a timely manner. WEST Pilots do not do well with uncertainty and are not comfortable enduring multi-year legal battles.

Oh and why don't you read the latest PHX BPR update and tell us what THEY have to say about our situation. We're in this for the long haul so all of you might want to address future issues of furlough and recall of westies as they leave your side and are rehired on the east which contractually means westies go below all the east pilots, including those on the "third" list.

Good luck.

 

[A320 Driver]

Or possibly in the context of how doh with c&r's affect west/east pilots as compared to a nic list that cannot be implemented, i.e. no new contract vs contract with doh and c&r's.

Or possibly the fact that the dynamic at the airline regarding bases, bids etc. has changed so radically since NIC passed judgement, that a hard look should be taken into it's applicability to current conditions, NOT pre-merger.


Driver B)

 

[Phoenix]

I'll tell you the difference

1- the unions provided the lists, not the company

2- The company signed the ta and accepted the list AND PAID FOR the LIST, and it knows hybrid dfr's exist and it knows usapa's proposal has been found illegal by a jury and it knows that precedent's say it's illegal.

Do you still think they are the same thing

1. Exactly.

2. Neither ALPA nor the Company ever agreed that LOA 96 prevented them from freely bargaining, and the 9th spanked Wake for attempting to change that. If you insist that the Company is liable for damages to the same extent as precedent has already found USAPA liable, then fine. The Company has ZERO liability, by precedent.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, they are trying to prevent the west from using a group of guys that are down on their luck as stepping stones to gain seniority without earning it!

I couldn't have said it better!

 

[Code Name V]

Really! MANY others! You say ALPA is not coming back so that leaves IBT and?.........

SWAPA going to come save us?

Gert real. usapa is failing and will continue to fail until the west is the majority and fixes your mess.

The west will never be a majority. As the 1,000+ retirees leave on the east in the next few years and are replaced by new hires that will make rapid advancements through the system; who do you think they will vote with?...the one that causes them to regress or the one that allows them the opportunity to grow?

Think about it...

and should ALPO ever even think to become a concern over here, the IBT would be involved before you had time to scratch your westicles. Never happen. Some may be dissappointed in USAPA but they hate ALPO with a passion.

V

 

[Phoenix]

a union may not take away the seniority of some employees for no reason other than that the losers have too few votes to affect the outcome of an intra-union election, or that they opposed the union's leadership

Let me ask you easties this: Does the quote above accurately describe what usapa is attempting to do?

A union has the responsibility to establish seniority policy of its members. Obviously, ALPA failed at establishing a ratifiable contrat, and if they were still here, they would still be attempting to change their bargaining position in order to achieve a ratifiable contract. As Driver already said, things have changed so radically, how could any union be constrained from making adjustments to their bargaining positions? The failure to adjust for new realities would itself be a DFR. Do we have to wait for another 10 years before a change to bargaining can be considered?

 

[Ames]

scabs

america west pilots

You're using something written in 1991 to call us scabs now - 20 years later? You are a bigger idiot than I thought.

 

[Ames]

Now, if an East pilot was hired in 1987, the america west pilots flew drugs in 1991, scabbed in Australia in 1992, spotted a ufo in 1995, flew drunk in Miami.............,,,,,,,,,,,,,???????????

Who is the more senior pilot?

Still hanging on to that ancient history I see..... Dipshit.

 

[Ames]

You are quoting accidents, I am quoting crimes, illegal activity.

america west ceo

You would be quoting accidents as well...... If there were any.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Or possibly in the context of how doh with c&r's affect west/east pilots as compared to a nic list that cannot be implemented, i.e. no new contract vs contract with doh and c&r's.

What proof do you have that the Nic cannot be implemented? There haven't been any votes . . .

 

[Ames]

Dipping pretty low, even by west standards...Ive read your own people frowning on this...

FAIL

In dealing with you eastholes there is always lower to go. You do set the bar to your standards.

 

[traderjake]

A union has the responsibility to establish seniority policy of its members.

"a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one
group of employees over another,"



The other case relied on by the USAPA law firm is the Seventh Circuit U.S.
Court ofAppeals decision in Rakestraw v. United Airlines. In that case, ALPA
successfully defended DFR claims brought by United replacement pilots after ALPA
secured United's agreement to restore the seniority ofthe Group of 570 striking pilots to
the seniority they would have had but for the strike. Rakestraw recognized that seniority
is an element of an agreement rather than a fixed right or commodity, but it did not
simply grant a free hand to unions to renegotiate seniority terms. Rather, the court held that "a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another," and the union may seek to negotiate an adjustment in a seniority list only if the adjustment "rationally promote the aggregate welfare of employees in the bargaining unit." 981 F.2d at 1535.

 

[fodase]

Or possibly in the context of how doh with c&r's affect west/east pilots as compared to a nic list that cannot be implemented, i.e. no new contract vs contract with doh and c&r's.

That would prove the wests case, the majority holding the minority hostage. Illegal.

 

[fodase]

Well, they are trying to prevent the west from using a group of guys that are down on their luck as stepping stones to gain seniority without earning it!

So their not a majority that is changing an agreed to seniority list that advances the majority over the minority? The fact the east believes they are in the right doesn't change the facts of what usapa proposes, illegal.