US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

I know you asked Jake, here is my response: While I am generally pleased that you took the time to read the award, the fact is that ALL of the award is the conclusion of a process that both pilot groups agreed upon. Your continued flag waving that the list is not fair does not change the fact that it remains final and binding. NO ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts (this according to Cleary & Mowrey - US AIRWAVES June/July 2000).

Our position is our legal experts sustaining our argument for our proposal, much as your expert fought for the instructed position of DATE OF HIRE.

Here is what I think: this is yet another delay tactic that will ultimately end in failure, loss of income, loss of benefits, loss of time off and the continued loss of the respect that the pilots that support USAPA feel that they are entitled to.

I'm not waving any flag to say it's unfair, but to show the lurkers how full of it you guys are when you run your mouths about how fair it was, how all you guys wanted was what you brought etc. And that AOL has lied and cannot be blindly trusted. I learned the
hard way through personal experience.

 

[fodase]

So you can't paraphrase in one sentence what your point is... I see.

He has no point, the west proposal wasn't accepted by Nic. neither was the east's, just more revisionist history.

 

[Pi brat]

He has no point, the west proposal wasn't accepted by Nic. neither was the east's, just more revisionist history.

So, you can't follow either. What a shock!

Hey, where is that proof I asked you for when you said USAPA lied about EF's seniority. Found out they were right, huh?

 

[prechilill]

He has no point, the west proposal wasn't accepted by Nic. neither was the east's, just more revisionist history.

That's what I think he was trying to say which is about like pointing a gun at your foot to prove some weird, esotheric idea. If nothing else his quote demonstrates clearly that Nicolau came pretty far from the west proposal just like he did with the east (Thanks Brat!). I guess PI realized his mistake which is why he won't say anything...
The guy is pretty dumb.

 

[Pi brat]

So you can't paraphrase in one sentence what your point is... I see.

I shouldn't have to, but since you can't take the time to read before you run your mouth, AOL at best misstated, and at worst flat out lied about this in it's media kit.

 

[fodase]

So, you can't follow either. What a shock!

Hey, where is that proof I asked you for when you said USAPA lied about EF's seniority. Found out they were right, huh?

Yes usapa lied about ef's seniority, just like they lie and twist everything else. They use bad after the fact numbers and they compare doh to nic not stand alone and not pre merger numbers.

 

[Pi brat]

That's what I think he was trying to say which is about like pointing a gun at your foot to prove some weird, esotheric idea. If nothing else his quote demonstrates clearly that Nicolau came pretty far from the west proposal just like he did with the east (Thanks Brat!). I guess PI realized his mistake which is why he won't say anything...
The guy is pretty dumb.

I love it when you post! You, the weakest of west links calling someone dumb! Thanks, you made my day! Please tell me the haven't cut you loose in the left seat.

 

[Black Swan]

I know you asked Jake, here is my response: While I am generally pleased that you took the time to read the award, the fact is that ALL of the award is the conclusion of a process that both pilot groups agreed upon. Your continued flag waving that the list is not fair does not change the fact that it remains final and binding. NO ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts (this according to Cleary & Mowrey - US AIRWAVES June/July 2000).

Our position is our legal experts sustaining our argument for our proposal, much as your expert fought for the instructed position of DATE OF HIRE.

Here is what I think: this is yet another delay tactic that will ultimately end in failure, loss of income, loss of benefits, loss of time off and the continued loss of the respect that the pilots that support USAPA feel that they are entitled to.

AND- you were specifically WARNED by ALPA Nat'l that if you persisted in pushing this list, you were risking it all. They clearly recognized the danger in this award, to you getting it, and them remaining the bargaining agent that backed it. WYE River and St. Louis were their last ditch attempts to square this debacle. You may be correct in the fact NO ALPA seniority has ever been set aside by the courts. And herein is the danger- you risked ALPA by pushing the east pilots into the corner with an outlier award.An ALPA award. Removing ALPA was a multifaceted benefit to the east. It was an immediate hit back at the ones who finally went one step too far. As a result, your ALPA arbitration went in the can as a secondary benefit. You kept your ill gotten "prize" and assumed the risk of that assumption. ALPA paid first, now the west pilots leaders have pushed them into an untenable and costly battle. Your "win" was like a person walking into a forclosure event, with the hundreds of people losing their homes to you for mere thousands of dollars, in attendance, and you shouting for joy, and expecting to make it out of the room intact.

 

[Pi brat]

Yes usapa lied about ef's seniority, just like they lie and twist everything else. They use bad after the fact numbers and they compare doh to nic not stand alone and not pre merger numbers.

Show me. When I pulled the west seniority list off wings it showed him right where they said, about 85%. Put your money where your mouth is, don't be like pre.

 

[fodase]

AND- you were specifically WARNED by ALPA Nat'l that if you persisted in pushing this list, you were risking it all. They clearly recognized the danger in this award, to you getting it, and them remaining the bargaining agent that backed it. You kept your ill gotten "prize" and assumed the risk of that assumption. ALPA paid first, now the west pilots leaders have pushed them into an untenable and costly battle. Your "win" was like a person walking into a forclosure event, with the hundreds of people losing their homes to you for mere thousands of dollars, in attendance, and you shouting for joy, and expecting to make it out of the room intact.

You were warned that you would be on loa 93 and not get doh, did you listen? Guess what, now you and your buddies will retire with the worst contract in airline history. BTW you will lose loa 93 soon and the senior boys retiring in the next couple of years will go out the door with nothing to show for their support of the usapa maggots.

 

[fodase]

Show me. When I pulled the west seniority list off wings it showed him right where they said, about 85%. Put your money where your mouth is, don't be like pre.

Every west pilot has gone backwards since the merger, yet you want to use post merger numbers that benefit your position, doesn't work that way. Because of the east we have furloughed hundreds and downgraded hundreds more, yet you wish to look at todays numbers, not pre merger numbers. BTW on the west list I was 25 from 757 captain in 2005, today I am 200 from that same position, all thanks to you and your east buddies.

 

[prechilill]

I love it when you post! You, the weakest of west links calling somone dumb! Thanks, you made my day! Please tell me the haven't cut you loose in the left seat.

Highlighting stupidity...
You are so angry and bitter, you no longer deserve courtesy

 

[Pi brat]

Highlighting stupidity...
You are so angry and bitter, you no longer deserve courtesy

Hit a nerve there, didn't I?


Hey, you made yourself look stupid, don't blame me. I'm typing on a two inch screen, what's your excuse?
How about it, you're an AFO, right? Little captain envy going on?

 

[luvn737s]

Now had nicolau came up with another solution more like what would be palpable to a larger group of Eadt pilots, we might not be where we are.

How many of the east rank and file really intended to sign on as hostage takers, (only to be taken hostage themselves)?

Paying ransom rewards bad behavior and encourages more of the same.

 

[Black Swan]

Every west pilot has gone backwards since the merger, yet you want to use post merger numbers that benefit your position, doesn't work that way. Because of the east we have furloughed hundreds and downgraded hundreds more, yet you wish to look at todays numbers, not pre merger numbers. BTW on the west list I was 25 from 757 captain in 2005, today I am 200 from that same position, all thanks to you and your east buddies.

Well, you realized all that RISK you were specifically warned about. ALPA itself did its' part to tell you, it would never come true. So they were correct. You have essentially islanded yourselves, with no chance of integration with the Nicolau. McIlvenna was clearly told what would happen by the ALPA cadre. It came true. Your ALPA leaders essentially handed off all leadership to Leonidas by not listening and removing ALPA from all properties involved. Nicolau means nothing now in this seniority battle. ALPA specifically told McIlvenna that risk. The 9th clearly said that. Harm is now the only constraint.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CiiQYqT72s