US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

EOA and Pi

Need to submit this nomination form. Have you decided if you're throwing your hat in the ring EOA?

Are you interested Pi?

To be honest, I never thought about it.

 

[Benz M-100]

Pi, EOA and/or 1984: I'd support either/all of you gents!

 

[Piedmont1984]

To be honest, I never thought about it.

Well think about it. I've always said, the best way to "reform USAPA" is at election time.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Pi, EOA and/or 1984: I'd support either/all of you gents!

Not me. Too old. Need too many naps🙂

 

[Benz M-100]

LOL, well I can certainly understand that

 

[luvn737s]

For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would think that changing uniforms will somehow change the losing record.

I know you don't really think that a clean-sheet replacement for USAPA would be merely "changing uniforms". A union that made it possible for reasonable pilots to unify behind effective leadership whether it is a national union or not, would be the union that would finally serve the interests of ALL US pilots.

USAPA was formed without west input and any attempts to reform USAPA would be viewed as "carpetbagging" and/or window dressing while ignoring endemic and structural problems. Has the keeping of the USAirways name taught us nothing? It sets unrealistic and artificial expectations of "control" and implies a grafting of a branch onto a trunk when the reality is that it is two branches grafted together and transplanted. Thirdly, reforming USAPA requires extensive effort to amend a constitution that contains a DOH mandate. How many other divisive elements are contained in the backroom document that the founding children dreamed up? Randy Mowery , under oath, testified that he had only solicited the opinion of ONE west pilot when crafting their "generous" Conditions and Restrictions. Marginalizing the West is a cornerstone of USAPA philosophy, yet I hear of so many folks looking to reform the union.

There is a time for the battered wife to acknowledge her efforts to "reform" the tyrant are in vain and file for divorce.

 

[prechilill]

I know you don't really think that a clean-sheet replacement for USAPA would be merely "changing uniforms". A union that made it possible for reasonable pilots to unify behind effective leadership whether it is a national union or not, would be the union that would finally serve the interests of ALL US pilots.

ALPA failed miserably, why do you think giving them another chance would give us different results? A union is not a name.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Suppose, just for the sake of argument, I would agree that USAPA is now "disgraceful and embarrassing". What would YOU and I just mean YOU do to improve it since we both agree that the letterhead is not important?

Making amends for RICO is what I would do first. Some people that don't deserve it are running around with a tattoo on their forehead, and what usapa did to them I would call disgraceful. Though I don't think letterhead matters, I do think that the RICO needs to be properly put to bed before there is a real future for all under the usapa letterhead.

I've got to go get some breakfast and caffeine right now, but that is for starters.

 

[767one]

Ok, did you complete the survey and/or read the results? I'm guessing not since you said "participated self selected for personal reasons." I participated in order to try and share with the company my concern for some disturbing trends, and made every effort to not let my frustration with non-safety issues enter the equation. I asked every pilot I knew to do the same. That's exactly what the pilots I talked to did, and the results of the survey tended to mirror how I felt. Quite a few west pilots completed the survey, a higher % than the DCA base I believe. Were they wrong? Did they do it for political reasons? You say it was of no value. Does that mean that the showing of the majority of our pilots had trust in our dispatchers was wrong? Same for individual check airman. They came out well in the survey, should we assume the opposite since the survey was "flawed"?

Remember, the union tried to get the company to do a survey. They wouldn't! They could have had a hand in the questions asked.

I think it was a huge mistake for the company to ignore USAPA's request to survey the pilots and then ignore our survey. to me it's kind of like a captain that ignores one of his crew members because the crew member complained about this and that during his briefing and he just wrote them off as a whiner. If that person called during the flight saying they smelled an electrical odor as you started out over the water, would you ignore them because the had a meltdown rant about catering at the gate?

I agree Pi brat, it was the most complete, insightfull survey I have taken in my career and I encouraged all pilots I knew to take the survey. I took about 2 hrs to take it and voice my concerns in a constructive way. The fact that the company did not want to participate just shows that their safety culture is flawed. Sad to say I think that this will only become apparent to the faa after some incident (s). I hope I'm wrong about the last part and that they put their egos aside long enough to see what is going on.

Regards,


Bob

 

[luvn737s]

ALPA failed miserably, why do you think giving them another chance would give us different results? A union is not a name.

If you look back on my posts, you'll see that I do not advocate ALPA's return, but I also would not rule it out. I think ALPA would be too polarizing at this point, but eventually we may see that a national union is the most cost-effective way to run things.

But not in the foreseeable future.

 

[767one]

The problem with the "safety culture survey". It was nothing but an opinion poll. The people that participated self selected for personal reasons. Mostly the usapa supporters that are angry at the company and generally everything around them. If this was a random sample of a significant size it may carry some credibility. Otherwise it really has no scientific basis. It is just the opinion of some angry pilots that want a better contract and usapa has used it to create leverage where they have none because of the seniority issue.

CD,
I disagree with your assesment. I filled out my anwers and gave my opinion based on my experiences without any political influence from usapa. I had stopped filling out polls with alpa because the alpa questions were "Loaded" and would pretty much point you in one direction. A typical question on the alpa poll might be.....
Would you rather (a) have you eyes poked out with a burning stick or (B) have slivers of bamboo shoved underneath your fingernails or (C) have your entrails cut out with a teaspoon or (D) all of the above?


Regards,

Bob


please disregard the emoticon , don't know how that got there!

 

[767one]

Before I answer this, did you take the survey and did you read the results?

Pi brat,

That was sure a typical answer from he who shall not be named. Usapa questions preloaded? It was the Wilson poll questions that were preloaded. It is obvious that hwsnbn did not read/take the poll, came to his conclusion and manufactured his "facts" to support said conclusion.


Regards,

Bob, about to leave the land of the haboob! still dust all over.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I know you don't really think that a clean-sheet replacement for USAPA would be merely "changing uniforms". A union that made it possible for reasonable pilots to unify behind effective leadership whether it is a national union or not, would be the union that would finally serve the interests of ALL US pilots.

USAPA was formed without west input and any attempts to reform USAPA would be viewed as "carpetbagging" and/or window dressing while ignoring endemic and structural problems. Has the keeping of the USAirways name taught us nothing? It sets unrealistic and artificial expectations of "control" and implies a grafting of a branch onto a trunk when the reality is that it is two branches grafted together and transplanted. Thirdly, reforming USAPA requires extensive effort to amend a constitution that contains a DOH mandate. How many other divisive elements are contained in the backroom document that the founding children dreamed up? Randy Mowery , under oath, testified that he had only solicited the opinion of ONE west pilot when crafting their "generous" Conditions and Restrictions. Marginalizing the West is a cornerstone of USAPA philosophy, yet I hear of so many folks looking to reform the union.

There is a time for the battered wife to acknowledge her efforts to "reform" the tyrant are in vain and file for divorce.

The extensive effort to amend a constitution that contains a DOH mandate is going to require the consent of the majority. Somehow some pilots believe that time is on their side. Tell me what if anything you can do to get the majority to see things your way?

 

[end_of_alpa]

http://usat.ly/qeFBkS

CEO's are worth every penny! Corporate employees should be grateful that this kind of leadership are willing to work for such paltry amounts. I think every employee should be forced by the government to contribute extra into their retirement accounts and use that money to invest in mutual funds that invest in these companies.

People like CM certainly believe that these companies are worth it.

 

[Pi brat]

It was the Wilson poll questions that were preloaded. It is obvious that hwsnbn did not read/take the poll, came to his conclusion and manufactured his "facts" to support said conclusion.


Regards,

Bob, about to leave the land of the haboob! still dust all over.

Really! I think the last Wilson poll question I answered went something like "would your rather be smeared with honey and locked in a closet with a swarm of bees and a certain USA320 pilot for a month, or vote for ALPA?"

I don't bet much, but I'd bet a dollar that most of the people, company and pilots, that complain about the safety survey have never seen it or the results.