US Pilots Labor Thread 1/6- 1/12

[BoeingBoy]

Uh huh.

I never mentioned "when" those "hero's" left?...did I?

No - just when they got the money:

The DAY OF FILING for BK, the limo making the drive to NY to file CH11 documents made a few stops along the way:

1) Stephen Wolf $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

2) Rakeesh Gangwal $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

3) Larry Nagin (General counsel) $5 million dollars (cashiers' check)

THEN, got back on I-95 to NYC to file CH 11 papers.

Since they didn't get the money till they left the company, your characterization that they stopped to pick up their cashier's check on the way to file BK1 is at best misleading. Gangwal left in late 2001, so collected no change of control payout. Wolfe and Nagin collected their change of control money - exiting BK1 with new owners triggered that, not the failed UA merger (You'll notice that I never said that the change of control was triggered by the failed UA merger - only that the change of control language in their contracts was enhanced during that merger attempt).

However, the vast majority of those payouts (all in Gangwal's case) were lump sum payments under their pension plan.

As I said previously, there's lots of words that could be used to describe such large payments but embezzlement isn't one - it was all legal. The only other thing I disagreed with was your timeline for the payouts - that "The DAY OF FILING for BK" and "cashier's check" linkage.

Jim

 

[fatherabraham]

Regardless of your feelings on Wolf, Gangwal, Nagin and Cohen they in fact are no different then a line pilot in that ALL of them had or have a contract with US Airways.

They exercised their rights under their contracts just like the pilot group is now. I fail to see the difference.

We hear all over these boards "Follow The Contract", "What does the contract say" etc etc.The company can't pick and choose which contracts to honor. For example there was a huge rumor that the reason Al Crellin kept his job post merger was he had a severance payout that would choke a buffalo and the terminally cheap new US management didn't want to pay Millions to get rid of him.

I just don't get where this idea of "Fairness" comes from? Fairness in a capitalistic economic system is roughly the same as expecting that there be rules to a knife fight. Just plain silly

Piney,
I wish Business Ethics worked in todays environment as it did in our fathers generation.
I think the negative downward trend is what irritates me and others.
FA

 

[ManDachine]

" Yes it stems from the nic but the claim is that USAPA did not, has not, and appears not to want to uphold their required duty to fairly represent the west"

I am happy to report that today, after further talks; the Company and the Scheduling Committee have agreed to extend the protest period for west bid 2008-02 until COB JAN 16, 2009 per Contract SEC 25-A-1b


USAPA Scheduling Committee

 

[Tiger 1050]

That's great news. However, you will not have any real credibility until USAPA fights to implement the nic. That is my right and their resposibility. The east should have avoided the arbitration like the plague knowing full well a list such as the nic was possible. Claiming a C&BL's mandated DOH after the fact is what the court will look at. And not in a positive light either...

 

[EyeInTheSky]

That's great news. However, you will not have any real credibility until USAPA fights to implement the nic. That is my right and their resposibility. The east should have avoided the arbitration like the plague knowing full well a list such as the nic was possible. Claiming a C&BL's mandated DOH after the fact is what the court will look at. And not in a positive light either...

Not going to happen.

Later,
Eye

 

[jetjok1]

Regardless of your feelings on Wolf, Gangwal, Nagin and Cohen they in fact are no different then a line pilot in that ALL of them had or have a contract with US Airways.

They exercised their rights under their contracts just like the pilot group is now. I fail to see the difference.

We hear all over these boards "Follow The Contract", "What does the contract say" etc etc.The company can't pick and choose which contracts to honor. For example there was a huge rumor that the reason Al Crellin kept his job post merger was he had a severance payout that would choke a buffalo and the terminally cheap new US management didn't want to pay Millions to get rid of him.

I just don't get where this idea of "Fairness" comes from? Fairness in a capitalistic economic system is roughly the same as expecting that there be rules to a knife fight. Just plain silly

PB, Well, the one difference I see is they negotiated themselves a "Golden Parachute", something we weren't capable of. Secondly, look what's happening around the country- they're falling like flies, the likes of the above mentioned. Yup, the CEO's of this country are working up a great win/loss record. Well, hopefully-that's about to change

 

[fodase]

Carolina Panthers to protest Play-off result.

API – January 11, 2009: 0957AM

If the Arizona Cardinals think that they will play in the NFC Championship game, they might want to think again. On Monday, the Carolina Panthers will officially protest the final score of last night’s game in which Arizona beat Carolina 33-13.

“Obviously, the final result of the game is just a starting point for discussion†according to Brad Ford, a third string punter with the Panthers and the president of the fledgling Unified Sorry-A$$ Panthers Association which was formed in the back of the team bus yesterday. “Let’s look at the facts…..we had a better regular season record, we were the home team and most of the bookies expected us to win the match. The Panthers even went to the Super Bowl a few years back while the Cardinals haven’t won a playoff game in years. The fact that we were going to the Super Bowl this year was set in stone. I don’t even know why the NFL insisted on us playing the game. It should have just been given to us. And then the Cardinals have the gall to show up prepared and play hard. We didn’t expect that. If Arizona only had any sense of decency, they would have rolled over and let us win in front of our home crowd. They shattered my career expectation which had me getting a Super Bowl ring this season. This is just not the way we do things in Charlotteâ€.

Appearing with punter Brad Ford was the Association’s lawyer, Leah Seeum from the NY lawfirm of Pleez, Hunny, Lemme & Seeum. “My clients have a watertight case†Ms. Seeum stated. “Game results are like Happy Meals. Fully negotiable, especially in regard to which toy you get with it. We are going to take this all the way up to the Commissioner. Not only should have Arizona voluntarily forfeited the game but the way the referees handled the game was completely biased. They are just 7 senile old men in TGI Friday shirts!â€

Before leaving the stadium, Ms. Seeum had a warning for the NFL Commissioner: “He better change the results of the match as well as the archaic and biased scoring system and play-off schedule if he wants to keep an NFL team in Charlotte. We already spoke to the NHL and will join that league if the NFL refuses to bow to our demands. Of course, the Carolina Hurricanes are already playing in the NHL, but our organization is senior to them. Therefore, they will be joining the development league of the NBA for now. They will be able to bid back into the NHL or move to the NBA after 5 seasons, based on some conditions and restrictions we are currently writingâ€.

Representatives of the NFL, Cardinals, NHL and the Hurricanes could not be reached for comment.
__________________

 

[Pacemaker]

The company can't pick and choose which contracts to honor.

I take issue with this claim. In fact, the guiding labor-reltations philosopy of the management teams you cited, including up to the present day, has been to do just that. They continue to go to great lengths and great expense to squirm out of iron-clad agreements that don't suit their taste.

 

[sharktooth]

I take issue with this claim. In fact, the guiding labor-reltations philosopy of the management teams you cited, including up to the present day, has been to do just that. They continue to go to great lengths and great expense to squirm out of iron-clad agreements that don't suit their taste.

Management can only "wiggle out" when the worker has no framework in which to force management to comply. Hence, ALPA is gone. Labor has dispensed with phony "professional", stiff upper lip responses this time, perhaps even to visiting Louisville.

 

[Phoenix]

... The minute you guys voted in USAPA you screwed yourselves. ..

We vote, brother. And claims of carnal knowledge might be off limits on this web-board.

 

[Tiger 1050]

We vote, brother. And claims of carnal knowledge might be off limits on this web-board.

Maybe your right!

 

[nic4us]

You're a real oracle! Didn't you say that the Nic would implemented last year? :huh:

Later,
Eye

Nope, never put a timeline on the NIC before but now think early 2010. Saw the desperation in USAPA's youtube video explaning why DOH was good for me and realized just how out of touch they are with the West. As events play out USAPA will come to the realization that the NIC is not going away, their lawyer gave them bad advice, the company will not stick their neck out after already accepting the award. Early 2010 USAPA will change to trying to negotiate protections in the contract around the NIC or be gone on their two year anniversery.

Later,

NIC4US

 

[700UW]

US did not file chapter 11 in NYC, they filed in Alexandria, VA.