US Pilots Labor Thread 1/6- 1/12

[traderjake]

Removed

 

[Freighterguynow]

It the rates do snap back I think the courts will have a problem with it. If the east knew that the rates would return and the east continues to get all of the benefit from separate ops and want DOH and continue to delay the integration and joint contract. The judge may have something to say about that.

And just what will he say? - you agreed to ALPA merger policy. There is no time line for the process.

Hopefully your attorneys looked at the Polar/Atlas merger first.
2001 - Transaction
2005 - Seniority list
2010 ? Joint contract talks starting in Spring 2009

 

[des nudo]

I take it Pacemaker has forgotten only the most visible example of profiteering by previous AAA management...even I remember this one:

The DAY OF FILING for BK, the limo making the drive to NY to file CH11 documents made a few stops along the way:

1) Stephen Wolf $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

2) Rakeesh Gangwal $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

3) Larry Nagin (General counsel) $5 million dollars (cashiers' check)

THEN, got back on I-95 to NYC to file CH 11 papers.

Maybe you were sick that day?

I happen to agree with V1, there has been lots of looting over the years.

 

[cleardirect]

And just what will he say? - you agreed to ALPA merger policy. There is no time line for the process.

Hopefully your attorneys looked at the Polar/Atlas merger first.
2001 - Transaction
2005 - Seniority list
2010 ? Joint contract talks starting in Spring 2009

Not quite sure what your point is here?

Both sides agreed to ALPA merger policy. That policy gave us the Nicolau. Are you admitting that usapa is bound to implement that list?

The point of the discussion is moot at this time. I checked with some sources. Usapa says that there are no wage changes on December 31, 2009. There will be no snap back when LOA 93 become amendable.

 

[nic4us]

just read the USAPA Phoenix domicile update and watched the Youtube video promoting USAPA's DOH w/ C&R's.

Easy prediction. The Nicolau award will be implemented sometime early 2010, if not sooner.

 

[Pacemaker]

I take it Pacemaker has forgotten only the most visible example of profiteering by previous AAA management...even I remember this one:

The DAY OF FILING for BK, the limo making the drive to NY to file CH11 documents made a few stops along the way:

1) Stephen Wolf $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

2) Rakeesh Gangwal $15 million dollars (cashiers' check)

3) Larry Nagin (General counsel) $5 million dollars (cashiers' check)

THEN, got back on I-95 to NYC to file CH 11 papers.

Maybe you were sick that day?

I happen to agree with V1, there has been lots of looting over the years.

des nudo,

Well, I was sick that day along with every other employee who witnessed this travesty. Management dropped the ball around 1986 and has yet to pick it up again. But, this airline lost nearly $5 billion in the years before the merger. That's some serious looting!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

just read the USAPA Phoenix domicile update and watched the Youtube video promoting USAPA's DOH w/ C&R's.

Easy prediction. The Nicolau award will be implemented sometime early 2010, if not sooner.

You're a real oracle! Didn't you say that the Nic would implemented last year? :huh:

Later,
Eye

 

[des nudo]

des nudo,

Well, I was sick that day along with every other employee who witnessed this travesty. Management dropped the ball around 1986 and has yet to pick it up again. But, this airline lost nearly $5 billion in the years before the merger. That's some serious looting!

And your point is...

Are you saying this is normal? Or are you saying this is acceptable? Or are you simply confirming the claim?

Which is it?

If you think the $35 Million dollar morning was unique, you are mistaken...that was simply the last "free take" from the kitty before filing BK.

Where was ALPA? Why didn't they chase after those monies? This was straight up embezzlement.

Another reason ALPA had to go.

 

[cleardirect]

And your point is...

Are you saying this is normal? Or are you saying this is acceptable? Or are you simply confirming the claim?

Which is it?

If you think the $35 Million dollar morning was unique, you are mistaken...that was simply the last "free take" from the kitty before filing BK.

Where was ALPA? Why didn't they chase after those monies? This was straight up embezzlement.

Another reason ALPA had to go.

Call the SEC. If you have any proof or suspicions call the cops. If it is embezzlement then former stock holders would love to know. ALPA is not a regulatory agency. Is there any proof that this happened? If not a union throwing false accusations around like that could find them in serious trouble.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is how urban legends get started....

The facts are that Wolfe, Gangwal, and Cohen left at different times - none of them "The DAY OF FILING for BK." So they collected their money at different times - Cohen a few months after US exited BK1.

The payouts were part of their change of control package, negotiated when the US/UA merger looked like it might go through. Unfair? Certainly. Another example of corporate greed? Without a doubt. Embezzlement? Hardly - it was all perfectly legal.

ALPA did try to get both the BK court and the company to get the money back from Wolfe and Gangwal (the two that left before/during BK1), but without success.

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Not quite sure what your point is here?

Both sides agreed to ALPA merger policy. That policy gave us the Nicolau.

My point is to counter these claims that a judge will implement a new contract or that USAPA is somehow accountable for delaying the process.

The fact is, there IS no time line nor has there ever been. If it takes us a decade to sort this out then that is well within the bounds of ALPA merger policy.

I mentioned the Polar/Atlas merger because that company (Atlas) and the Atlas pilot group would very VERY much like to see that merger completed ASAP. However, it is extremely detrimental to the Polar pilots who were using (prior to ALPA getting the boot for the Teamsters last month) every tool in the book to fight implementation of a joint CBA including, not even showing up for negotiations. The company thought about suit but were advised there was no standing by their lawyers.

Now, maybe Marty the lawyer is smarter than those guys but, then again, they were on the payroll and had no need to hustle up billable hours either.

So, you can't have it both ways. If ALPA merger policy gave us the Nic then you must accept, in turn, that merger policy has no time line.

 

[Tiger 1050]

You're a real oracle! Didn't you say that the Nic would implemented last year? :huh:

Later,
Eye

This is a post from you Eye...

"I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely...

Later,
Eye"

So let me ask why are you here? What could you possibly have to say that has any meaning whatsoever to any of us current employees? I'd say something about finding one's own life but I am sure the mod's would have something to say...

 

[Tiger 1050]

The fact is, there IS no time line nor has there ever been. If it takes us a decade to sort this out then that is well within the bounds of ALPA merger policy.



So, you can't have it both ways. If ALPA merger policy gave us the Nic then you must accept, in turn, that merger policy has no time line.

Your right! ALPA Merger policy does not require any timeline. But then you should have stayed with ALPA to use that argument successfully. The minute you guys voted in USAPA you screwed yourselves. Understand this is a DFR suit. Yes it stems from the nic but the claim is that USAPA did not, has not, and appears not to want to uphold their required duty to fairly represent the west. The court will decide if our claims are in fact real and we'll move on to something else I'm sure.

 

[des nudo]

This is how urban legends get started....

The facts are that Wolfe, Gangwal, and Cohen left at different times - none of them "The DAY OF FILING for BK." So they collected their money at different times - Cohen a few months after US exited BK1.

The payouts were part of their change of control package, negotiated when the US/UA merger looked like it might go through. Unfair? Certainly. Another example of corporate greed? Without a doubt. Embezzlement? Hardly - it was all perfectly legal.

ALPA did try to get both the BK court and the company to get the money back from Wolfe and Gangwal (the two that left before/during BK1), but without success.

Jim

Uh huh.

I never mentioned "when" those "hero's" left?...did I? My point with Pacemaker is that the issue of AAA losing millions and millions over the years is exemplified by deals like that one.
That $35 million payout was funded immediately prior to filing CH11...AND, it was a deal that they got paid for a "change of control" THAT NEVER HAPPENED, DID IT?

call it what you want, I call it stealing, and so do most others that were there. And that ALPA never even put any public light on it (think Worldcom or Enron) speaks volumes about ALPA...

Read more carefully before you insert yourself into an exchange.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

This is a post from you Eye...

"I am not a pilot or a US Airways employee. Just a concerned customer hoping that big boys can play nicely...

Later,
Eye"

So let me ask why are you here?

Uh, because I feel like it.

Later,
Eye