US Pilots Labor Thread 1/6- 1/12

[nycbusdriver]

You have a job. Absent the meger AAA would have been liquidated. That was the plan that SWA, DAL, JBLU and others were all counting on.

You can't know that. Parker did say it, but he also said AW would also have been in bankruptcy. But the westies seem only to have consistently heard the first part.

In February, 2005 (about two weeks after the then-CEO Bruce Lakefield said that there was no money out there to be had for exit financing), Republic, Air Wisconsin, and Airbus all started to pony up with cash to get US out of bankruptcy. Then.....silence....for about two months. Everyone wondered what was going on. Then the rumors of a merger with AW surfaced and about a month after that Parker and Lakefield made it official.

Seems to me the initial financing started to come in, but Lakefield decided to do the more logically expeditious deal (while he gladly got rid of the job of running an airline, which he consistently said he hated.)

Who really knows if USAirways would have gone under, or whether enough exit financing would have come through the door absent AW?

USAir(ways) has had their obituary written for them many times over the psat two decades. The rumors of its demise have always been exaggerated.

 

[Metroyet]

Who really knows if USAirways would have gone under, or whether enough exit financing would have come through the door absent AW?

George Nicalau knew.


So will any other neutral from here on out....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

George Nicalau knew.

I heard Nicolau's Ouija board was for sale on eBay.

Later,
Eye

 

[traderjake]

Thank you all for poking the LOA 93 stick in our eye so consistently and so often.

Who made the stick. We did.

You don't like it then negotiate a contract that the courts will allow, i.e. one with the arbitrated seniority list.

 

[kubotapilot]

It seems that the Addington suit, being transformed into class action status with monetary damages may be causing a delay in the trial time line according to a continuance granted by Judge Wake 1/5. Not sure how much of a delay but it sure sounds like familiar territory that I experienced years ago. This may drag out for a little bit longer than you expect.

Like I said earlier, the process actually works, but either party can delay considerably with the correct / incorrect filings etc... With our one case, the plaintiff mis-filed several documents and actually caused a 6 month delay and a lot more billable hours to both parties !

No matter what your counsel tells you, it's all about the billable hours. They (lawyers) ALWAYS make their money regardless of who "wins".

 

[electricjet98]

I believe that this statement is what tipped the scale in favor of DOH. The east contract being what it is may have tipped the scale the other way for the pilots. The east is going to see the most significant gains from any new contract. About 80-85% of those gains.

This is not to say one could not construct some sort of mid-ground that would attempt to incorporate a methodology utilizing both a mechanical and a date of hire approach. Several factors militate against this. First, these are relatively small units. The West group is comprised of 37 individuals. The East local has 120 active employees with 32 currently on furlough (as of the date of the hearing.) It is logistically difficult to mold a hybrid list, given this small a unit. Moreover, unlike pilot mergers, which often involve companion considerations including aircraft types, differing status and categories and a variety of additional distinctions, the instant case is considerably more basic. These employees, on the other hand, perform the same functions, in essentially the same manner and will operate under a combined agreement that features no fence or any of the other arcane elements peculiar to pilot cases.

 

[electricjet98]

I do not enjoy strawberries.

But obviously love apples & oranges!

 

[Captain Underpants]

As Jim had said in prev. post. Some one might want to do some digging in some negotiating notes to see exactly the intent of the rates being frozen through '09. As during the combined restructuring, LOA 84 I believe, the book rates were reset and the Parity reviews were done away with.

LOA 93

1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.

2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18.0%

3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18©, by 18.0% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.

4. Pay all flying at day rate.


If frozen means simply freeze the computation of our rates until the end of '09.

The pay rate freeze clearly ends on 12/31/09. The 18% reduction depends on the rates being frozen and would also end when the rate freeze ends. Items 3 and 4 are independent and would still be in effect.

The rates you listed would be the unfrozen book rates. It will be interesting to see if the West pilots have a problem with our pay rates going above the West rates as it does not fit with their evil agenda.

underpants.

 

[Crzipilot]

Capt:
330 - 227.32
Group 1 - 205.38
Group 2 - 178.34

F/O
330 - 155.26
Group 1 - 140.27
Group 2 - 121.80

So those would be the 12 yr rates as of 5/08. 3%/yr increase after '08.

again as this is a msg board. and there have been many "ideas" passed along that just didn't happen to come about. As with everything else, I would imagine this would be a good item to bring up sooner than later. and get it straight with the new management, which I'm sure has their own take on how it's supposed to go..

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I report facts, the reader makes their own decision on the validity of the posts and posters.

Yea, well you forgot to mention anything about the eighteen hundred or so USA-e pilots who were furloughed - i.e. NOT working for the airline - at this very same time. And who had absolutely no expectation of ever returning.....unless this merger actually were to occur.

What about them facts, nosty?

Besides, shooting the messenger is called taking cheap shot - typical east behavior.

 

[Freighterguynow]

The pay rate freeze clearly ends on 12/31/09.

While I certainly hope you're right - I'm afraid if it were this easy (IMHO) someone "in the know" would've dangled this tidbit long ago either before Wye River or during the election of a new CBA.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Frieght,
That is one messed up avatar! Looks painful...

 

[Freighterguynow]

Frieght,
That is one messed up avatar! Looks painful...

Like the coach used to say: "No pain no gain!"

 

[hp_fa]

It seems that the Addington suit, being transformed into class action status with monetary damages may be causing a delay in the trial time line according to a continuance granted by Judge Wake 1/5. Not sure how much of a delay but it sure sounds like familiar territory that I experienced years ago. This may drag out for a little bit longer than you expect.

Class action? When did that happen?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Date of hire of pilot in editorial, August 16, 2004.

He's also furloughed from TWA and scheduled to be furloughed from AWA.