US Pilots labor thread 5/3-
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traderjake
Veteran
Hit a nerve. Maybe you have some extra bumper stickers you can sell him. Or maybe even skills to coin a new slogan.
The truth does hit a nerve.
The truth is your boys in PHL and PIT did not want the rank and file to vote on a contract based on the company's initial proposal because they knew it would have passed.
Thank you PHL and PIT reps for negotiating LOA93.
Like I said, we have a history of shielding the personal agenda of Union officials from line pilot interference.
Nice to know you don't believe a Union should represent the majority of the rank and file and you don't like the rank and file voting on contracts or issues.
It was 'just a proposal', and an 'initial' one at that. Who in their right mind takes the first thing slapped down on the table (unless there is a gun to your head)?
Dude...Negotiating 101. Need to review.
Anyway, the rank and file don't vote on proposals, only a tentative agreement - one that passes the sniff test of the negotiators first.
Isn't the process into mediation now? Chill dude, and let the process work. The pilot group can do much better than Kirby.
Cheers.
CallawayGolf
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- Nov 13, 2009
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Theoretically yes. However with USAPA at the helm the odds are not good because:
1) USAPA doesnt want a contract; they only want to delay the NIC
2) Negotiations require leverage to advance your position; USAPA has none
3) USAPA has zero credibility with the company, the courts, the mediator(s), their own constituents and will therefore be unable to assert their will over any of these parties that control their destiny
4) USAPAs leaders lack the competence and experience to gain any advantage even if they wanted one which of course they dont.
5) Irrational, narcissistic leaders cannot be counted on the make rational decisions that would benefit others rather than themselves.
so the solution is to take the kirby, and give up scope, min fleet, etc. for 3%? Get real.
traderjake
Veteran
What your boys negotiated, LOA 93, is less than the "just a proposal and an initial one at that".
Negotiating 101.
Whoa, big feller. LOA93 has been on the books now for some time......I thought we were discussing the kirby.
LOA93 was the brainchild of that nefarious organization called ALPA, and was foisted on the east with a .357 aimed at our collective temples.
ALPA doesn't allow the common folk to vote, so there was none by the membership.
So, what are you discussing? I'm confused as to what your point is.
???
CallawayGolf
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- Nov 13, 2009
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Perhaps you need a tune up in basic logical reasoning:
A. LOA93 is lower than Kirby rates for east pilots
B. USAPA is incapable of negotiating an offer higher than Kirby (two years and still nothing)
C. Kirby is the best offer the pilots will see as long as USAPA is the bargaining agent
Conclusion: Kirby is greater than LOA93 (current rates). The only way for east pilots to get better wages than the LOA93 rates while USAPA is the CBA is to accept Kirby and the NIC. Rejecting Kirby mean less take home pay than has already been offered. Your claim that the east pilots want more than the Kirby proposal while still supporting USAPA defies logic and reason. Of course defying sound logic and reasoning resulting in money flowing out of pilots’ pockets rather than into them is what USAPA and its supporters do best.
A. LOA93 is lower than Kirby rates for east pilots
B. USAPA is incapable of negotiating an offer higher than Kirby (two years and still nothing)
C. Kirby is the best offer the pilots will see as long as USAPA is the bargaining agent
Conclusion: Kirby is greater than LOA93 (current rates). The only way for east pilots to get better wages than the LOA93 rates while USAPA is the CBA is to accept Kirby and the NIC. Rejecting Kirby mean less take home pay than has already been offered. Your claim that the east pilots want more than the Kirby proposal while still supporting USAPA defies logic and reason. Of course defying sound logic and reasoning resulting in money flowing out of pilots’ pockets rather than into them is what USAPA and its supporters do best.
N924PS
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- May 9, 2004
- 2,037
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ALPA did allow the common folk to vote on LOA 93.
A majority of USAirways pilots voted in favor of LOA 93.
Were you furloughed when that vote took place?
And what is usapa? And what is their brainchild??
And what has been pointed at the West?
What have we voted on with usapa? The disenfranchisement of the West? Like Cleary is going to let anyone vote on anything resembling a contract.
What is your point, you're in the drivers seat and driving in circles and circles and circles.
IAATD!!
OTTER574
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- Jan 11, 2009
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Cubfan
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God Bless You and Your family and hope and pray for a fast recovery.
Otter
Phoenix
Veteran
Ok. So you agree that the majority passed LOA 93, and you suddenly seem to have a new found affection for the rectitude of the majority wishes. Ergo:
1. you should not be ashamed to have a huge stack of "Let my Daddy Vote" bumper stickers (apparently you were in the majority, or now argue everyone should have been).
2. nor should you have any reservations about ALPA being tossed off the reservation, on April 17th, a day that lives in infamy (according to the dictates of the "majority" of the "rank and file").
3. You are amazed at the contrast of ALPA and USAPA... one chose to give away several billion dollars of earned pensions on behalf of the "rank and file," despite dire warning that they should not deny a "rank and file" vote, while the other refuses to insult the rank and file by passing along unacceptable capitulations for ratification. What contradictions... the GAG always thought the pilots were too dumb to vote for themselves and seemed to be comfortable with the MEC taking charge, but now that the GAG accuses the BPR of adopting the same strategy (that was once wise), it is somehow not acceptable, and supposedly is contrary to the majority that wants to vote on something now, no matter what it is.
Oh, wait... I notice a problem. You seem to infer some knowledge of a "majority" of "rank and file" but no where have you pointed to a means to verify your supposed knowledge of the majority's urgent desire to vote now at all costs, on something, anything.
Are thousands of pilot's children calling the Safety Hot Line to tell the BPR "Let my daddy vote."? Has someone gathered data for a hockey stick graph?
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Created in response to a controversial seniority ruling that seemed to favor pilots from the former America West over pilots from the former US Airways, it has faced divisions throughout its short existence. Not only west pilots, but also some former US Airways pilots are opponents. A member of the former group, who asked not to be named, said USAPA has accomplished nothing during its existence, neither eliminating the ruling nor securing a new contract. "Here we sit, two years later," he said.
Cleary is an idiot.
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