US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/9-6/16--PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES

[ussnark]

It was OK for USAPA to be wrong.

It's not OK to stay wrong.

Staying wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence is beyond stupid.

You are saying that the east pilots should not invoke every legal opportunity to stave off disaster for this airline?

You are sounding just like those ALPA enablers who, quite literally, cried each time management asked for a concession. Whose answer to any negotiating conflict was the fetal position, crying for concessions and abusing their kids. No wonder other ALPA carriers thought we were idiots.

Under ALPA, we have a lot of experience throwing in the towel well before the bell was rung. For once, I would like to see something played out, like adults do.

 

[john john]

Wrong.

It does not establish how unions function in intra-union merger disputes.

OK then WHO does then in a union shop environment

 

[aquagreen73s]

OK then WHO does then in a union shop environment

You already know the answer. One place is the Sandra Day O'Connor Federal Courthouse. The NMB has jurisdiction only over labor and management disuputes for airlines and RR. THey do not handle situations where a union is breaking the law as the NMB is an adminstrative agency which does not handle civil suits. It's very difficult for plaintiffs to get into federal court, but once they do then the facts speak. Just like what happened here. USAPA's whole plan was to DFR the West pilots and then use the procedural hurdles to keep us out of court for many years. There were several USAPAians on this board gleefully parroting this line last year and the idea was simple: delay long enough so that once the West finally gets justice, it'll be too late. Another merger or just the passage of time would make undoing the harm impossible.

Your scheme almost worked. 😛h34r:

 

[john john]

You already know the answer.

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2008/35n037.pdf

 

[john john]

. The NMB has jurisdiction only over labor and management disuputes for airlines and RR.

OK all agree then USAPA represent the USAirways pilots so USAPA and the company start section 6 negotiations. Get a tentative agreement and put it out to vote. No problem there
RIGHT

 

[aquagreen73s]

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2008/35n037.pdf

Right...USAPa is the CBA. Congress formed the NMB to preside over labor-management relations for airlines and RRs. One function of the NMB is certifying CB agents, which is what you linked to. What the NMB doesn't do is handle civil suits against labor unions. Congress has elected to keep that with the federal courts, and the reason should be obvious.

Keep looking under the rocks on the grassy knoll.

Section 6 would be fine so long as the harmed plaintiffs are made whole. There's really only one way to do that, which is with a Nic implementation. The problem with your plan is that it's just another attempt to evade Nicolau through what appears to be a neutral act, but in reality is designed to avoid your obligations and duties owed to the West class. In that light separate section 6s are no different than your DOH concoction. Judge Wake will have continuing jurisdiction to handle matters such as this. There's only one way for this to be over and that is for USAPa to make good on their inherited duties and obligations, and nowhere does that include separate section 6s.

 

[cleardirect]

OK all agree then USAPA represent the USAirways pilots so USAPA and the company start section 6 negotiations. Get a tentative agreement and put it out to vote. No problem there
RIGHT

Yes there is a problem with this direction also.

The west all ready has section 6 rights that usapa has ignored. If usapa decided to go forward with the east section while leaving the west behind. DFR.

We also need to wait to see what the judge has for remedies.

I hope that the east is beginning to understand what being liable for a DFR involves. It is serious. Not something that is just brushed off as minor.

Don't get to attached to an east section 6 path.

 

[john john]

We also need to wait to see what the judge has for remedies.

WHO is "WE" USAPA

 

[cleardirect]

WHO is "WE" USAPA

Really?

You can not be that obtuse. "WE" as in we the pilots of US Airways. All pilots. Because the remedies will effect and ALL of WE.

 

[A320 Driver]

Really?

You can not be that obtuse. "WE" as in we the pilots of US Airways. All pilots. Because the remedies will effect and ALL of WE.

Mmmm, not reading much "we" in your posts direct, more like "us" meaning "west". Clearly you have a different opinion about what improvements should be available for East vs. West in contract negotiations.

I've read much about East parity being unfair because it consumes much of any contract gains that we could expect from the company. While many tought the benefits of such a contract, they are quick to point out that East gets a disproportionant amount of the gains.

Sooo, what do you think is fair?

Driver B)

 

[hp_fa]

In defense of John John I don't think he is a pilot. I could be wrong, but I don't think he is.

 

[Ardenian]

Under ALPA, we have a lot of experience throwing in the towel well before the bell was rung. For once, I would like to see something played out, like adults do.

You've been there, too, eh? Apparently in close quarters?

This is the perspective which is unrecognizable to the younger, more impressionable, self-absorbed members of our fraternity.

But they know everything...or so they think. Eh, snark?

 

[Tiger 1050]

You've been there, too, eh? Apparently in close quarters?

This is the perspective which is unrecognizable to the younger, more impressionable, self-absorbed members of our fraternity.

But they know everything...or so they think. Eh, snark?

Given USAPA's record I wouldn't say older and wiser are synonymous though either...

 

[aquagreen73s]

This is the perspective which is unrecognizable to the younger, more impressionable, self-absorbed members of our fraternity.

Grabbing a line from one of your fellow old timers: "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

 

[EastUS]

Heck, I read the entire thing within 20 seconds!

Most impressive indeed. That's representative of an ability to read at a rate of 441 words per minute!!!

The intended point of the missive was evidently passed by though....

Have a good one regardless. This mess will continue on, regardless of any/all ranting/venting/etc.