Dog Wonder
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And X number of years down the road some one will claim they said it first.
The "big announcement" this week was a bust.
US/UA Possible Merger Discussion IV
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And X number of years down the road some one will claim they said it first.
The "big announcement" this week was a bust.
Dont call me Shirley
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you forgot QIK/SHARES vs. Sabre! (The former still sucks)
As far as the end of the merger talks goes, I am disappointed. Not only because the prospect of working for a "real airline" like UAL is appealing in itself for many US employees. While a merger would have been fraught with problems, I believe that the long term job prospects for US employees would be far better with a merger.
USA320Pilot
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Dog,
Who said there was going to bea big announcement. If my memory serves me correctly the comment was there would be interesting news.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Who said there was going to bea big announcement. If my memory serves me correctly the comment was there would be interesting news.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
JAMAKE1
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From the New York Times...
United Said to Have Ended Talks With US Airways
By MICHELINE MAYNARD and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN
Published: May 30, 2008
United Airlines told US Airways on Thursday that it had decided not to continue talks on a possible merger, people with direct knowledge of the situation said.
The chief executive at US Airways, W. Douglas Parker, was told of United’s decision during a meeting with its chief executive, Glenn F. Tilton.
The airlines are expected to announce Friday that the discussions have ended, these people said late Thursday. They spoke on condition of anonymity.
US Airways officials briefed the airline’s directors on the decision Thursday night.
The discussions apparently bogged down over the difficulty of combining the two airlines’ various labor contracts. US Airways, which merged with America West in 2005, faced additional costs under its pilots’ contract if it entered into another merger so soon, these people said.A spokeswoman for United, Jean Medina, declined to comment, as did a spokesman for US Airways.
United’s decision not to pursue the merger marks the second time in a month that it has failed to reach a deal with another major airline, only this time it was the company that spurned the idea. The board of Continental Airlines decided on April 27 not to continue discussions with United, saying that a deal was not in the airline’s best interest. United has held talks since then with Continental about a marketing agreement.
Mr. Tilton and Mr. Parker have been the leaders among airline industry executives in calling for consolidation, saying that it is inevitable given the stiff competitive challenges.
Airlines have been hit this year by increases in the price of jet fuel, which has risen 82.5 percent in 12 months. Several carriers have announced plans to eliminate routes and retire aircraft to cut costs and to raise fares.
United, which spent three years under bankruptcy protection in this decade, lost $537 million in the first quarter, and said it would announce a series of cost-cutting steps. Some analysts thought the moves might be announced veiled this week, but Ms. Medina said no announcement was planned.
United’s board raised concerns about the potential merger during a meeting on May 15. In addition, the airline faced the likelihood that at least two directors, representing the Air Line Pilots Association and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, would vote against the merger.
Without unanimous board support, it might have been difficult for the airline to find lenders who were willing to back the deal, people with direct knowledge of the situation said Thursday.
Those unions, as well as the Association of Flight Attendants, might have also lobbied against the agreement in Washington.
However, United officials did not consider labor’s opposition to be insurmountable, these people said.
The breakdown of the United-US Airways talks means that Delta and Northwest are likely to be the only major airlines that merge before the end of the Bush administration. The two carriers announced an agreement on April 14 that is being reviewed by the Justice Department. Delta and Northwest say they hope to receive regulatory approval before the end of 2008.
This week bankers, lawyers and other advisers to United, the second-largest traditional airline behind American, and US Airways, the sixth-largest, said the work on the merger had been postponed while Mr. Tilton pondered whether the negotiations should continue.
The delay frustrated some executives at US Airways, who were eager to proceed with discussions so that the agreement might be reviewed before a new president takes office.
Both airlines had agreed that there could be value in the combination, but never completed the details, such as the location of the airline’s headquarters, which executive would run it and the compensation that shareholders would receive.
.
United Said to Have Ended Talks With US Airways
By MICHELINE MAYNARD and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN
Published: May 30, 2008
United Airlines told US Airways on Thursday that it had decided not to continue talks on a possible merger, people with direct knowledge of the situation said.
The chief executive at US Airways, W. Douglas Parker, was told of United’s decision during a meeting with its chief executive, Glenn F. Tilton.
The airlines are expected to announce Friday that the discussions have ended, these people said late Thursday. They spoke on condition of anonymity.
US Airways officials briefed the airline’s directors on the decision Thursday night.
The discussions apparently bogged down over the difficulty of combining the two airlines’ various labor contracts. US Airways, which merged with America West in 2005, faced additional costs under its pilots’ contract if it entered into another merger so soon, these people said.A spokeswoman for United, Jean Medina, declined to comment, as did a spokesman for US Airways.
United’s decision not to pursue the merger marks the second time in a month that it has failed to reach a deal with another major airline, only this time it was the company that spurned the idea. The board of Continental Airlines decided on April 27 not to continue discussions with United, saying that a deal was not in the airline’s best interest. United has held talks since then with Continental about a marketing agreement.
Mr. Tilton and Mr. Parker have been the leaders among airline industry executives in calling for consolidation, saying that it is inevitable given the stiff competitive challenges.
Airlines have been hit this year by increases in the price of jet fuel, which has risen 82.5 percent in 12 months. Several carriers have announced plans to eliminate routes and retire aircraft to cut costs and to raise fares.
United, which spent three years under bankruptcy protection in this decade, lost $537 million in the first quarter, and said it would announce a series of cost-cutting steps. Some analysts thought the moves might be announced veiled this week, but Ms. Medina said no announcement was planned.
United’s board raised concerns about the potential merger during a meeting on May 15. In addition, the airline faced the likelihood that at least two directors, representing the Air Line Pilots Association and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, would vote against the merger.
Without unanimous board support, it might have been difficult for the airline to find lenders who were willing to back the deal, people with direct knowledge of the situation said Thursday.
Those unions, as well as the Association of Flight Attendants, might have also lobbied against the agreement in Washington.
However, United officials did not consider labor’s opposition to be insurmountable, these people said.
The breakdown of the United-US Airways talks means that Delta and Northwest are likely to be the only major airlines that merge before the end of the Bush administration. The two carriers announced an agreement on April 14 that is being reviewed by the Justice Department. Delta and Northwest say they hope to receive regulatory approval before the end of 2008.
This week bankers, lawyers and other advisers to United, the second-largest traditional airline behind American, and US Airways, the sixth-largest, said the work on the merger had been postponed while Mr. Tilton pondered whether the negotiations should continue.
The delay frustrated some executives at US Airways, who were eager to proceed with discussions so that the agreement might be reviewed before a new president takes office.
Both airlines had agreed that there could be value in the combination, but never completed the details, such as the location of the airline’s headquarters, which executive would run it and the compensation that shareholders would receive.
.
Be Careful What You Wish For.
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I hate to be a one line wonder but - amen to that.
Be Careful What You Wish For.
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I've never said this to anyone on this board before but- please, just go away.
Long term job prospects for US employees would not be good if this went through, especially since they were talking about closing PHX as a hub. Now we get to keep that hub(thank god) Where I work, us air has its own people working cargo, but ua has some crappy contract working cargo, if we merged, it would probably mean our cargo guys would have to bump to the ramp and since 75% of those guys have more seniority than me, I would be out of a job. Thats all that matters to me and its all that should matter to everyone else, keeping our jobs. I don't like umemployment, done it before, don't wanna do it again, not fun. If we have to merge, we should merge or buy alaska airlines, we need a strong west coast presence. Plus AS doenst have too many senior employees and most of the ramp is contracted out besides in seattle and anchorage. I don't know about maintenance or psngr srvc. So it probably wouldn't be a real threat to most of the US employees. It would still be nice to form an alliance with UA, but they want CO. Anyways, Doug most likely has a backup plan, so we'll just wait and see what happens.
Poug Darker
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Ok, so what is Plan B?
Piedmont1984
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If Doug's backup plan is anything like the aftermath of the Delta deal falling through - I hope someone is there to drive him home this time.
767jetz
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USA320pilot said:
"However, in this case UA and US may have no other option but to merge."
"Simply put...there may be no other option but for the two business partners to finally merge if the companies and their employees want to avoid bankruptcy, which is why Doug Parker and Glenn Tilton are apparently meeting tomorrow."
"I suspect management will go to US USAPA and UA ALPA and propose a pre-nuptial deal. The deal could be the current $122 million US offer to ALPA and now USAPA, US East and US West pilot fences, and the Nicolau Award, with the deal superimposed over the UA pilot group with pre-merger UA pilots having fences around their crew bases."
"As I indicated earlier this could be an interesting week."
"I agree with ETOPS1 that "this aint' over by a long shot and I believed it then and still believe now that this merger will happen."
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BottomFeeder said:
"You claim to be in the know and yet you have no proof."
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flydude said:
"Oh...ok, I feel much better now. We will all sit back and wait for your next update. :blink: From what I understand, the talks never ended, they just slowed down. Whatever happens is anyone's guess???"
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Fly said:
"Let's hope this is an "agree to be friends" meeting. I can't imagine the internal problems this will cause but I seriously doubt that they will be able to get the capital necessary to fund it anymore."
767jetz said:
"...things could change and if the talks are on hold they COULD be resumed. But for the foreseeable future it is going nowhere."
"As I have been saying, there seems to be a shift occurring at UAL's BOD, and there has been more support for the views of our labor representatives on the board. Tilton can negotiate whatever he wants and put it on the table for the BOD to consider. But everyone needs to remember that nothing happens without the Board's approval."
"Perhaps progress has been made with the Continental talks. Since it is well known that UA prefers a deal with CO than a merger with US do to the labor problems associated with a merger..."
"IMO, labor and particularly the pilot's seat on UA's Board of Directors has and continues to be an influence on what is happening in the executive suite."
---------------------------------------------------
Talks are over for now. As predicted Tilton met with Parker to basically say politely, "no thanks."
United/US Airways Merger Plans Suspended
"United is very near an alliance agreement with Continental Airlines Inc., said two people familiar with the situation."
Report Says Talk Ends
"Thursday night that Glenn Tilton of UAL Corp.'s United informed Doug Parker of US Airways Group Inc. at the meeting that United had decided not to continue the merger talks."
So USA320pilot, BottomFeeder, and flydude, what say you now?
"However, in this case UA and US may have no other option but to merge."
"Simply put...there may be no other option but for the two business partners to finally merge if the companies and their employees want to avoid bankruptcy, which is why Doug Parker and Glenn Tilton are apparently meeting tomorrow."
"I suspect management will go to US USAPA and UA ALPA and propose a pre-nuptial deal. The deal could be the current $122 million US offer to ALPA and now USAPA, US East and US West pilot fences, and the Nicolau Award, with the deal superimposed over the UA pilot group with pre-merger UA pilots having fences around their crew bases."
"As I indicated earlier this could be an interesting week."
"I agree with ETOPS1 that "this aint' over by a long shot and I believed it then and still believe now that this merger will happen."
--------------------------------------------------
BottomFeeder said:
"You claim to be in the know and yet you have no proof."
--------------------------------------------------
flydude said:
"Oh...ok, I feel much better now. We will all sit back and wait for your next update. :blink: From what I understand, the talks never ended, they just slowed down. Whatever happens is anyone's guess???"
--------------------------------------------------
Fly said:
"Let's hope this is an "agree to be friends" meeting. I can't imagine the internal problems this will cause but I seriously doubt that they will be able to get the capital necessary to fund it anymore."
767jetz said:
"...things could change and if the talks are on hold they COULD be resumed. But for the foreseeable future it is going nowhere."
"As I have been saying, there seems to be a shift occurring at UAL's BOD, and there has been more support for the views of our labor representatives on the board. Tilton can negotiate whatever he wants and put it on the table for the BOD to consider. But everyone needs to remember that nothing happens without the Board's approval."
"Perhaps progress has been made with the Continental talks. Since it is well known that UA prefers a deal with CO than a merger with US do to the labor problems associated with a merger..."
"IMO, labor and particularly the pilot's seat on UA's Board of Directors has and continues to be an influence on what is happening in the executive suite."
---------------------------------------------------
Talks are over for now. As predicted Tilton met with Parker to basically say politely, "no thanks."
United/US Airways Merger Plans Suspended
"United is very near an alliance agreement with Continental Airlines Inc., said two people familiar with the situation."
Report Says Talk Ends
"Thursday night that Glenn Tilton of UAL Corp.'s United informed Doug Parker of US Airways Group Inc. at the meeting that United had decided not to continue the merger talks."
So USA320pilot, BottomFeeder, and flydude, what say you now?
Be Careful What You Wish For.
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With the likely prospect of a BK coming our way I wouldn't feel too secure yet. UA is outsourced and you may be shortly.
Things may look good in the short term but try thinking about what happens when all the money is gone next February.
JAMAKE1
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JAMAKE1
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The silver lining in all of this is that hopefully both carriers will redirect their respective energies into running companies that are operationally reliable and customer driven, reducing capacity where necessary, while focusing on the core strengths of each carrier, rather than crafting severance packages for senior executives and leaving a mess for someone else to manage...I believe that this is a good thing for both parties.
Piedmont1984
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I believe that if Doug Parker and Scott Kirby invested as much time and energy into finding bold and creative ideas to run this company as a stand alone operation - as they have in chasing other companies around to merge with - we could do many good things, even in this economic climate.
I believe the price of oil is artificially high, it's price inflated by speculators. All those financial entities that placed bets on the sub-prime mortgage market and subsequently lost - are now betting on the oil market - trying to recoup some of their losses.
It doesn't take much to prick a bubble.
Doug said in his last employee meeting in CLT that we are better positioned than most to weather this industry storm. Outside pundits say otherwise and characterize USAirways as one of the most vulnerable.
Time to walk the walk, Doug and Scott.
I believe the price of oil is artificially high, it's price inflated by speculators. All those financial entities that placed bets on the sub-prime mortgage market and subsequently lost - are now betting on the oil market - trying to recoup some of their losses.
It doesn't take much to prick a bubble.
Doug said in his last employee meeting in CLT that we are better positioned than most to weather this industry storm. Outside pundits say otherwise and characterize USAirways as one of the most vulnerable.
Time to walk the walk, Doug and Scott.
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