Official UA/US Possible Merger Thread-Discuss here

[skyflyr69]

If you love something enough, you'll stick with it. The question is, how far can the paycuts go before the airlines lose even their dedicated employees?

Rarely if you look over the past 33 years. Employees will stay till THEY get layed off unless young enough to start all over.

To start at the bottom is a big leap for most.

 

[Borescope]

What can are pilot group (US) do to help you guys to stop this merger, we don't want it either, lets work together.

You don't want it because your stapled list will cease to exist.


The "Nic" will be back in a merger

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You don't want it because your stapled list will cease to exist.


The "Nic" will be back in a merger

I asked a similar question on the US board that was never answered.

Since ALPA turned the NIC list over to US management before the USAPA change over, is it too far off the mark to believe that should a merger be officially announced sooner rather than later, that US management would use the NIC list as the starting point for merging the US & UAL seniority lists?


If USAPA (at the onset of a merger) hadn't already renegotiated seniority why would US management use anything else but the NIC ?

:unsure:

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Here's the persistent question that I have:

If the UAL list is merged with the Nic list, then isn't UAL's date of hire effectively extinguished with regard to any future consolidation? UAL can't go back to DOH any more than AAA, because to do so would re-order the list internally.

In other words, merge with NIC and bye-bye DOH... unless somebody can describe how that could be recovered by UAL pilots merged with a NIC'd US.

 

[767jetz]

Here's the persistent question that I have:

If the UAL list is merged with the Nic list, then isn't UAL's date of hire effectively extinguished with regard to any future consolidation? UAL can't go back to DOH any more than AAA, because to do so would re-order the list internally.

In other words, merge with NIC and bye-bye DOH... unless somebody can describe how that could be recovered by UAL pilots merged with a NIC'd US.

UAL would not be looking for a DOH list. Never have. In 2000 we were talking about relative seniority and career expectations as per ALPA merger policy. Just like the Nicolau award.

 

[luvthe9]

If you love something enough, you'll stick with it. The question is, how far can the paycuts go before the airlines lose even their dedicated employees?

Look around , that's already happend.

 

[luvthe9]

You don't want it because your stapled list will cease to exist.


The "Nic" will be back in a merger

I'm in the top few hundred Nic don't effect me. I do not know any east pilot that wants to take a seat away from anyone, I have no desire for your planes either, to me you brought them to the table we don't have a right to them the west on the other hand is a different story they feel entitled to every thing and do not respect seniority, I would say most all US pilots east feel pretty much the same way. Anyway I hope we don't have to find out, UAL is much better on it's own.

 

[Schultz]

UAL would not be looking for a DOH list. Never have. In 2000 we were talking about relative seniority and career expectations as per ALPA merger policy. Just like the Nicolau award.

Only until the UAL pilots DOH trump whichever airline they are going to merge with.

 

[Borescope]

I'm in the top few hundred Nic don't effect me. I do not know any east pilot that wants to take a seat away from anyone, I have no desire for your planes either, to me you brought them to the table we don't have a right to them the west on the other hand is a different story they feel entitled to every thing and do not respect seniority, I would say most all US pilots east feel pretty much the same way. Anyway I hope we don't have to find out, UAL is much better on it's own.

First of all I don't work for USair East or west.

Your seniority looks like it will remain "relative" no mater which way the west and east integrate the list. However, if US merges with UA there will be a whole new list generated based on ALPA's merger policy not the USAPA DOH. Just as the east pilots have done with the NIC award, the west pilots will do with the DOH list produced by USAPA. They will not agree to it, drag it to court, etc. Thus IF a merger happens, which I wouldn't count on, there will be three pilots groups that will be submitting their arguments to an arbitrator. Each of the groups will have their say and a list will be generated. Cooler heads will prevail (UA and West). Lets face it USair was going down the tubes, the only reason they are around today is because of your "friends" in Tempe. Good luck

 

[Jim Lively]

Only until the UAL pilots DOH trump whichever airline they are going to merge with.

Actually the US east pilots would make out a lot better in a DOH merger with UA. It ain't gonna happen that way though.

 

[767jetz]

Only until the UAL pilots DOH trump whichever airline they are going to merge with.

That will never be a factor. UA has consistently hired new pilots over the years whenever the rest of the industry was expanding. Even when there was no expansion there was a steady amount of attrition. So unlike the East, that is heavily biased to the elderly... errr... older pilots, UA's pilot group, as well as many other airlines, have a diverse group from young to old, and many years of service to just a few.

 

[luvthe9]

First of all I don't work for USair East or west.

Lets face it USair was going down the tubes, the only reason they are around today is because of your "friends" in Tempe. Good luck

Wrong, Parker already said A-west was finished without this merge, Project Zanzibar ring a bell, nice try though. next it will be Parker saved UAL there will be only two pilot groups US is now one whether you like it or not.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Wrong, Parker already said A-west was finished without this merge, Project Zanzibar ring a bell, nice try though. next it will be Parker saved UAL there will be only two pilot groups US is now one whether you like it or not.

So how do you see it unfolding?

Say for sake of argument that the media is actually correct for once, and UAL & US announce the merger next week.

As you say there will only be 2 pilot groups, ALPA & USAPA.

The UAL list is established, the only list US has is the NIC list. If a merger is announced do you see US management delaying the merger process to allow USAPA time to try and negotiate DOH, or do you see them attempting to merge using the NIC list?

I know this would ultimately have to be worked out between ALPA&USAPA what I don't see is US giving USAPA time to try and negotiate DOH, and the resulting litigation that is sure to follow from the west if they try.

:unsure:

 

[novaqt]

So how do you see it unfolding?

Say for sake of argument that the media is actually correct for once, and UAL & US announce the merger next week.

As you say there will only be 2 pilot groups, ALPA & USAPA.

The UAL list is established, the only list US has is the NIC list. If a merger is announced do you see US management delaying the merger process to allow USAPA time to try and negotiate DOH, or do you see them attempting to merge using the NIC list?

I know this would ultimately have to be worked out between ALPA&USAPA what I don't see is US giving USAPA time to try and negotiate DOH, and the resulting litigation that is sure to follow from the west if they try.

:unsure:

Neither one, they will probably try to merge as two separate entities maintaining separate lists. Tilton leaves and the new management is left with one ugly mess on their hands taking many years to integrate the lists into one. The two Unions will have to decide who goes with who. (JUST KIDDING HERE!!!)

 

[Fly]

Turbulent times

ANALYSIS | Unions ready to shoot down United merger plan with US Airways

May 8, 2008

United Airlines' powerful unions are not happy. And that is sure to further complicate an already hugely complicated situation for United CEO Glenn Tilton as he attempts to chart a course for the beleaguered carrier, which watched oil inch toward $125 a barrel Wednesday (it settled at $123.53).

In recent days, hyperventilating journalists who have been covering United's rumored consolidation efforts for months shifted focus after Continental Airlines said "no" to a stunned United. Without missing a beat and despite no on-the-record confirmations, they began insisting a United merger with a very tattered US Airways was but days away. And as has also been the case for months, United hasn't formally confirmed any merger talks, though there obviously has been plenty of discussion related to that topic.

If Tilton is indeed hell-bent on cutting a last-ditch deal with US Airways, one of the most poorly regarded (and poorly performing) of all the legacy carriers still operating domestically, United's CEO is going to have to contend with -- and ultimately win over -- three contentious, powerful and upset United unions, namely its pilots, mechanics and flight attendants.

Just how unhappy are they? Very, apparently. In a detailed statement issued Wednesday, Steve Wallach, chairman of the United Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, said his union has "serious concerns that the highly touted financial benefits to be derived from such a merger [with US Airways] are unlikely to be achieved because those benefits are based on assumptions that have no basis in reality." Wallach went on to say "a merger with US Airways should be a last resort and not a first choice for United."

We're told the mechanics and flight attendants are in full agreement with the anti-US Airways merger stance of Wallach and his pilots union. Wallach, by the way, also sits on United's board of directors and presumably is privy to many of the particulars about whatever consolidation talks have gone on thus far.

United spokeswoman Jean Medina would not comment on any rumored merger talks with US Airways or the status of those discussions, but she insisted the unions would absolutely be consulted about a proposed consolidation deal before it is consummated. We sure hope so. Because without the unions on board, a merger-obsessed United surely won't get very far along in any deal it wishes to make happen.