Fliboi, I think you have already made it clear that you are willing to work for $0, even if U were profitable.
What Are You Really Worth?
- Thread starter DCFlyer
- Start date
Bear96 said:
Because people are foolish enough to work for free or willing to work for cheap wages and no benefits there is no chance to regain the good wages and benefits we had 4 years ago at all the majors.
I hope all the airlines[INCLUDING MINE] cut their wages and benefits to Wal-Mart level and demand more productivity and then MAYBE these people will WAKE UP!
I do not know how many times these people have to be hit with a 2x4[figuratively] before they come to their senses.
The PRE-2001 Wages and benefits were good because our union brothers and sisters a generation before us fought hard for them.The best pay and benefits came as a result of hardships. I guess our Union leaders and the rank and file have forgotten our past it now is coming home to roost.
It appears that we will have to go through the whole cycle again because people who have forgotten their history are doomed to make the same mistakes again.
I understand management people working for free but that flies in the face of unionism.
I wonder how many union members have volunteered to work this weekend for FREE?
A union member working for free is the same as crossing a picket line! [SCAB]
DCFlyer said:
Just to tag onto that, CMR, Eagle and Mesa are profitable. Why is our CEO worth more than theirs?
- Thread Starter
- #94
michael707767 said:
Why don't you go make an offer to one of those CEOs (I am not sure they would take it because of the mess here). BTW don't the pilots here have a representative on the board who selects the CEO (and pay package).
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
DCFlyer said:
Without even reading between the lines, it is pretty apparent that you believe airline employees should only be paid as much as whoever is willing to do the job for the least - or you're just stirring the pot for the fun of it.
It's also reasonably apparent your knowledge of airline operations doesn't extend much beyond calling reservations and pushing the call bell button. Various comments about what various employees do and don't do make that obvious (loved the comment about the co-pilot "riding back and forth to Europe for fun and getting paid") - or you're just stirring the pot for the fun of it.
So let's try the shoe on the other foot. As you said above, a downward change in your pay would not cause you to walk out. By your reasoning, you're overpaid. Why not tell your employer to cut your pay to the least you would accept without leaving.
Better yet, have your employer reduce your pay to lowest level that would still get applicants for your job - that's what you seem to suggest airline employees are worth. What makes you worth more.....
Jim
2clippedwings
Veteran
BoeingBoy said:Without even reading between the lines, it is pretty apparent that you believe airline employees should only be paid as much as whoever is willing to do the job for the least - or you're just stirring the pot for the fun of it.
It's also reasonably apparent your knowledge of airline operations doesn't extend much beyond calling reservations and pushing the call bell button. Various comments about what various employees do and don't do make that obvious (loved the comment about the co-pilot "riding back and forth to Europe for fun and getting paid") - or you're just stirring the pot for the fun of it.
<_< OP is a troll. Finish or ignore.....
Boeing Boy save your intelligent and articulate debate for someone worthy of it.
- Thread Starter
- #98
I grow tired of all this whining:
I think this thread has proven a point - that nobody here will give me a real number. Most of the numbers referenced here are a comparison (WN). US Air is not WN.
Here are my findings so far:
Mechs are more educated then pilots - they deserve every penny.
ATO Agents should make $25 an hour + benefits because that is what WN makes.
Pilots are really smart and important people - plus flying is really complicated. They should make a lot of money so one day they can read magazines in a glass cockpit.
Most interesting of all is we couldn't get answers from Flight Attendants or Baggage Handlers. I guess they are out sick with a doctors note.
Final Note Jim - here is what I said "those extra co-pilots who flew to europe for fun on the clock in a business or first class seat". Please lay out the FAA requirements and then reconsider your comment.
I think this thread has proven a point - that nobody here will give me a real number. Most of the numbers referenced here are a comparison (WN). US Air is not WN.
Here are my findings so far:
Mechs are more educated then pilots - they deserve every penny.
ATO Agents should make $25 an hour + benefits because that is what WN makes.
Pilots are really smart and important people - plus flying is really complicated. They should make a lot of money so one day they can read magazines in a glass cockpit.
Most interesting of all is we couldn't get answers from Flight Attendants or Baggage Handlers. I guess they are out sick with a doctors note.
Final Note Jim - here is what I said "those extra co-pilots who flew to europe for fun on the clock in a business or first class seat". Please lay out the FAA requirements and then reconsider your comment.
I gave you very specific numbers. If you can't find UAL's C2K numbers on the web somewhere, then that appears to be a competance issue on your part. I asked you several specific questions. You didn't answer. Your comments show an incredible ignorance about aviation. Maybe you would be in better company on Airliners.net. May you be blessed to receive the exact level of competance in the cockpit that you are willing to pay for. Fly Cheap, Die Cheap.
mod note: please avoid quoting lengthy quotes.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
DCFlyer said:
Sorry about the misquote - didn't take the time to dig it out and went from memory.
Since I know the FAA requirements I'll keep my comment intact, thank you. If you knew the FAA requirements you'd know how far off your comment was. But it was in line with many of your other comments.....
Jim
deano said:
I think it is a perfectly valid question, he SIMPLY asked what do you as the worker feel a fair wage is? What do you as the worker feel you are worth? What do you as the worker feel is worth it to you to show up to work? what do you as the worker feel it will take that you feel appreciated and will come with an appropriate attitude and willing to work? By the looks of these posts -min $25.00 an hr, 50K plus a year for a customer service rep-that is laughable. Considering 95% of customer service agents in the us make $35,000 a year or less. You are in dream land, and as soon as U goes under you will start making 18-20k a year.
- Thread Starter
- #102
BoeingBoy said:
Jim - The bottom line is that the FAA requires it on flights scheduled over 8 hours (I am all for that). The UAL pilots thought it would be great to pay another guy to play cards with on flights scheduled 6-7-8 hours. Is my life more in danger today without this?
Busdrvr - I realize you have done a lot of great things and amazingly I agree with most of what you said! With your qualifications the C2K numbers might be right. But if some kid goes to a fly by night pilot school - why should they be riding your coattails?
Busdrvr said:I was an Airline Pilot at a major.
Qualifications (I'm "typical"): Graduated from one of the top 5 Universities in the nation. SAT/ACT scores in top 1%, GRE's, top 4%. BS, MBA, currently working on PhD. Over 5000 flight hours (3500 military, 350 combat). Flight Instructor in supersonic trainer. Trained US and allied pilots. Worldwide experience, . . .
And humble too!!
Your post is WAY too long. Come on, you talk about why pilots contracts are so long, if your long-windedness is any indication, it is easy to understand. Although you have some valid points, people do not want to read a diseratation-save that for your doctorate.
BAC111_4EVER
Newbie
- Jan 11, 2004
- 13
- 0
DCFLYER obviously wants numbers. I have no problem with that-I TRY to educate the public as to how little I make.
I have been a f/a for 6 years. I make $28/hr. HOWEVER, this is for FLIGHT TIME ONLY. The boarding, the cleaning of the a/c, the checking of catering, stowing of bags, getting f/c drinks, coats, transferring from airplane to airplane, sitting in airport, ALL UNPAID. As an average, I get paid exactly ONE HALF of the time I work. So, if I work 12 hours, the average is 6 hours of pay. So, I really make $14 an hour. Unless the company wants to fly me one hour, sit me for 7, and then fly me back. That's what they have been TRYING to do sometimes. That would be 9 hours duty-total pay $56. THAT is why we have unions-although please don't start a "union" discussion off this!
Out of this must come things like health insurance, health deductibles, tipping hotel van drivers, 401k savings (as the company has eliminated my retirement), children's school supplies, etc...etc...
In the new contract, U suggests the employees pay for their own uniforms and LTD.
Could I go somewhere else and make more than $14/hr? I have a college degree, am young and have skills. I could also use less harassment, intimidation and management buffoonery where I work. Yet, I stay. There are reasons-now that is personal info-not my paycheck.
Everyone has their personal reasons for doing so and no one should judge. You may say, "If you don't like it, leave." but for many of the ones who are still here through all this, don't you think they would have if they could?? You think they WANT to work at U?
Seems like pretty soon I won't have a choice. I hope that's not true, but it seems like the party (lol) is over.
I have been a f/a for 6 years. I make $28/hr. HOWEVER, this is for FLIGHT TIME ONLY. The boarding, the cleaning of the a/c, the checking of catering, stowing of bags, getting f/c drinks, coats, transferring from airplane to airplane, sitting in airport, ALL UNPAID. As an average, I get paid exactly ONE HALF of the time I work. So, if I work 12 hours, the average is 6 hours of pay. So, I really make $14 an hour. Unless the company wants to fly me one hour, sit me for 7, and then fly me back. That's what they have been TRYING to do sometimes. That would be 9 hours duty-total pay $56. THAT is why we have unions-although please don't start a "union" discussion off this!
Out of this must come things like health insurance, health deductibles, tipping hotel van drivers, 401k savings (as the company has eliminated my retirement), children's school supplies, etc...etc...
In the new contract, U suggests the employees pay for their own uniforms and LTD.
Could I go somewhere else and make more than $14/hr? I have a college degree, am young and have skills. I could also use less harassment, intimidation and management buffoonery where I work. Yet, I stay. There are reasons-now that is personal info-not my paycheck.
Everyone has their personal reasons for doing so and no one should judge. You may say, "If you don't like it, leave." but for many of the ones who are still here through all this, don't you think they would have if they could?? You think they WANT to work at U?
Seems like pretty soon I won't have a choice. I hope that's not true, but it seems like the party (lol) is over.
