What Exactly Has The Union Done For You?
- Thread starter bulldog
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
Curt,
What was unfair in the process was the element of BK. This mangment prepared for it and hired the best union busters to strategize a plan. Even though their plan during the first BK was focused on labor costs only, they did not "plan" for the events that had unfolded like war in IRAQ and fuel prices off the charts.
So, they went into bk again, because hell, why not. It worked the first time. And of course the threats got worse in BK and at the same time the economy got softer.
You know the schpell, you lived it.
All can attest that THE business model for Corporate America today is BK, specifically with companies where the unionized workers are.
Laws are changing as we speak, including pension reform. Won't help US Airways employees now, but will help other workers who have a defined pension plan.
I think the pendulum will change, it just won't happen tomorrow.
What was unfair in the process was the element of BK. This mangment prepared for it and hired the best union busters to strategize a plan. Even though their plan during the first BK was focused on labor costs only, they did not "plan" for the events that had unfolded like war in IRAQ and fuel prices off the charts.
So, they went into bk again, because hell, why not. It worked the first time. And of course the threats got worse in BK and at the same time the economy got softer.
You know the schpell, you lived it.
All can attest that THE business model for Corporate America today is BK, specifically with companies where the unionized workers are.
Laws are changing as we speak, including pension reform. Won't help US Airways employees now, but will help other workers who have a defined pension plan.
I think the pendulum will change, it just won't happen tomorrow.
longing4piedmont
Veteran
And what had proceeded these meetings to make management so confident they could get away with this? Why had the relations between these two parties become so "bitter", when this was not the case with any other group. Was there a side deal or let's say "side" conversations going on that 700 didn't know about? You see the walls in CCY have had ears for a long time. You would be surprised just how much in the "know" some of the customers are.PITbull said:
PITbull
Veteran
Longing,
I think the bitterness came in with the outsourcing issue. And of course, the IAM had clear language in their contract with this regard and won a huge arbitration win. I believe that is one of the reasons the co. went into BK again. They knew they were going to lose the case. I think another issue was not only the outsourcing issue but also the pension plans and eliminating all of utility.
IAM was doomed. God himself couldn't convince the demons of CCY to negotiate with the IAM. This management took us into BK again in sept 2004 with a defined mission, to capture another $1.2 billion and dump pensions of both IAM and AFA, and get rid of the outsource issue with the IAM once an for all.
Without being specific on this forum, I just know.
With fuel prices rising while we were in BK, the BOD knew we didn't have a managment team that could devise a plan to survive solo. Why? Because the folks they had hired only knew how to cripple labor and obliterate contracts that had certain protections for workers. They didn't know how to acutally operate an airline.
That's why the "Plan" turned into only a merger as the only plan that would ensure that the execs get some cash out of this deal and move on to the next airline with the same plan...and so on and so forth.
I think the bitterness came in with the outsourcing issue. And of course, the IAM had clear language in their contract with this regard and won a huge arbitration win. I believe that is one of the reasons the co. went into BK again. They knew they were going to lose the case. I think another issue was not only the outsourcing issue but also the pension plans and eliminating all of utility.
IAM was doomed. God himself couldn't convince the demons of CCY to negotiate with the IAM. This management took us into BK again in sept 2004 with a defined mission, to capture another $1.2 billion and dump pensions of both IAM and AFA, and get rid of the outsource issue with the IAM once an for all.
Without being specific on this forum, I just know.
With fuel prices rising while we were in BK, the BOD knew we didn't have a managment team that could devise a plan to survive solo. Why? Because the folks they had hired only knew how to cripple labor and obliterate contracts that had certain protections for workers. They didn't know how to acutally operate an airline.
That's why the "Plan" turned into only a merger as the only plan that would ensure that the execs get some cash out of this deal and move on to the next airline with the same plan...and so on and so forth.
HPearlyretiree
Veteran
- Nov 6, 2002
- 1,880
- 1,614
The union is always knocking at the door keeping the big boys honest.
Yeah, but who keeps the unions honest?
Yeah, but who keeps the unions honest?
EricLv2Fish
Veteran
- Aug 25, 2005
- 1,171
- 5
PITbull said:
Again, this merger is only two weeks old. When a process such as the above is involved sometimes overreaction takes place. Sounds like HP may have overreacted. If this is what happened, let's hope they have the smarts to recognize it and reevaluate their approach.
PITbull said:
Unfortunately, not all VPs, managers and supervisors can be like...you know...DP. I truly believe DP sympathizes with the old US Airways employee group. I've seen him speak publicly at least 3 times prior to the merger and he spoke to us about the hard times US endured. It wasn't just a passing comment. It was said in a manner that touched many of us AWA folks. He made this message clear to many of us, and changed our opinions of the situation. When the merger was first announced we were skeptical of success because we were merging with an Airline with a "bad" attitude. After hearing Doug speak about how good and resilent U employees truly are many of us began to look forward to the merger. He repeated this message every chance he got so we became more confident that he was serious and not blowing smoke. So I guess my point is this....some things that have to happen may go wrong the first attempt. Let's hope the folks in-charge will re-group, evaluate, and work with those affected to come up with a new solution. This is the way DP would do it. Too bad we can't clone him.
PITbull
Veteran
John,
AFA did as well. We went from a 15% pay cut to 8.4%. And we went from a bogie number of $106 million to $94 million. Of course when the judge issued our defined pensions be terminated on Jan. 10, and after our ratification on Jan. 5, the cost savings to the co. went up to $144 million.
AFA did as well. We went from a 15% pay cut to 8.4%. And we went from a bogie number of $106 million to $94 million. Of course when the judge issued our defined pensions be terminated on Jan. 10, and after our ratification on Jan. 5, the cost savings to the co. went up to $144 million.
PITbull
Veteran
Eric,
I hope your description is truly real.
The discipline policies at AWA may be sufficient because you already have an atomosphere of respect, coohesiveness and collaboration.
But on the East, we've been through hell and haven't left that place yet. I personally wrote to Doug on several occasions with some of our issues, he blew me off and did not respond. The CFO responds but I believe he is highly influenced by Jerry, so it puts us all at a disadvantage from the get go. I suspect that Jerry and Company told Doug not to respond to me. If that is the case, than that is pretty cowardly.
AFA did get a chance to speak with Anthony Mule. Super nice guy, but not sure how much he concpetulized and how much of his presentation was sincere. He is a big cheerleader for Doug Parker, but that's just not enough to convince our group that the culture is going to change.
Actions speak volume.
I hope your description is truly real.
The discipline policies at AWA may be sufficient because you already have an atomosphere of respect, coohesiveness and collaboration.
But on the East, we've been through hell and haven't left that place yet. I personally wrote to Doug on several occasions with some of our issues, he blew me off and did not respond. The CFO responds but I believe he is highly influenced by Jerry, so it puts us all at a disadvantage from the get go. I suspect that Jerry and Company told Doug not to respond to me. If that is the case, than that is pretty cowardly.
AFA did get a chance to speak with Anthony Mule. Super nice guy, but not sure how much he concpetulized and how much of his presentation was sincere. He is a big cheerleader for Doug Parker, but that's just not enough to convince our group that the culture is going to change.
Actions speak volume.
robbedagain
Veteran
Thank johna dn Piney I didnt understand why but thanks for the explanation
OP
bulldog
Member
- Jul 6, 2005
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #88
GUYS we have all gotten off track a little.
The main theme of this topic was directed towards RES and CSR groups.
While I respect the passion in the pro union group, I think the current situation with the CWA and IBT "marriage" is bogus and indicative of the internal politics in these two groups.
My main concern is that the overal state of this industy is not financialy healthy. I go back to my original question ( for RES / CSR ) what has the CWA / IBT done for you.
Secondly To be realistic both work groups are , and I hate this term, Unskilled entry level. Please no hate mail as I know how hard it is in res and all the knowledge needed. But the reality is pay a res agent 19.00 pr ph OR less than a 1.00 to a 3rd world call center. If we continue to bicker and infight what choice do we leave the BIG Boys with ?? . What would happen if they outsorce all of RES ? Would the Pilots / mechs walk out. I dought it as the Mechs didnt even support their brothers at NW.
As for the Pilots FA Mechs I can see a need for a bargaining voice I am ok with that.
Once again reguards to my co workers here at US AIRWAYS
The main theme of this topic was directed towards RES and CSR groups.
While I respect the passion in the pro union group, I think the current situation with the CWA and IBT "marriage" is bogus and indicative of the internal politics in these two groups.
My main concern is that the overal state of this industy is not financialy healthy. I go back to my original question ( for RES / CSR ) what has the CWA / IBT done for you.
Secondly To be realistic both work groups are , and I hate this term, Unskilled entry level. Please no hate mail as I know how hard it is in res and all the knowledge needed. But the reality is pay a res agent 19.00 pr ph OR less than a 1.00 to a 3rd world call center. If we continue to bicker and infight what choice do we leave the BIG Boys with ?? . What would happen if they outsorce all of RES ? Would the Pilots / mechs walk out. I dought it as the Mechs didnt even support their brothers at NW.
As for the Pilots FA Mechs I can see a need for a bargaining voice I am ok with that.
Once again reguards to my co workers here at US AIRWAYS
calibrator
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 558
- 0
I pray you're correct with the hope many more Teddies surface soon least it's over for the working class. The lights are dimming.........PITbull said:
