WN to expand Denver

[KCFlyer]

They did BHM-DAL but what about Tennessee, NO MEM-DAL or BNA-DAL. They just wanted to modify where THEY ONLY could make a profit. Its smart for WN to do that, but they don't want to go into a market and get flooded with competition, which BNA and MEM would do. How long does this stay in effect till the cap will be totally lifted?

Tennessee isn't covered under the Wright Amendment, is it? I know that Missouri was added to the list of states, but if I'm not mistaken, flights between BNA would still have to stop in an WA state.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Tennessee isn't covered under the Wright Amendment, is it? I know that Missouri was added to the list of states, but if I'm not mistaken, flights between BNA would still have to stop in an WA state.

I know TN isn't covered in WA. WN didn't want that added in cause that would have opened up MEM for NW and BNA for AA. Just as they don't want AZ or CO added in cause they'll get more competition. WN is using it to their advantage, which is smart. They know by letting more states in will be a financial disaster for them.

 

[KCFlyer]

I know TN isn't covered in WA. WN didn't want that added in cause that would have opened up MEM for NW and BNA for AA. Just as they don't want AZ or CO added in cause they'll get more competition. WN is using it to their advantage, which is smart. They know by letting more states in will be a financial disaster for them.

I don't think WN had anything to do with that. Missouri lobbied hard to get added since they had quite a few residents in KC and St Louis that traveled to Dallas on a fairly regular basis. It was the Missouri congressmen that got it changed.

 

[LoneStarMike]

Case in point: SWA got the Wright Amendment modified several years ago to provide service to Mississippi and Alabama non-stop from Love Field.

No, it was Dalfort Aviation, Legend's parent company that got the Wright Amendment modified.

Dalfort planned to remove all but 56 seats from its large aircraft and then operate flights from Love Field to points outside the Love Field service area. Dalfort argued that its proposed operations would be lawful under the commuter aircraft exemption. Dalfort requested a legal opinion from the Department on whether its proposed operations were permitted by the Wright Amendment.

On September 19, 1996, the Department’s General Counsel, Nancy E. McFadden, issued an opinion that held that the commuter aircraft exemption applied only to aircraft originally designed to hold no more than 56 seats. Since Dalfort intended to use larger aircraft reconfigured to come within the 56-passenger capacity limit, Dalfort’s proposal would be unlawful.

Dalfort sought judicial review of the opinion. Astraea Aviation, d/b/a Dalfort Aviation v. U.S. Department of Transportation, 5th Cir. No. 96-60802 (filed November 18, 1996). The Shelby Amendment made the case moot before it was decided.

Source: http://www.dot.gov/affairs/1998/981227.htm

Clarifying the 56-seat capacity limit was the main intention of the Shelby Amendment. AL, MS and KS being added to the Love Field service area was just a bonus.

Non-stop service to BHM from DAL just started late last year. AFAIK there is still no service from DAL to anywhere in Mississippi because SWA does not perceive a money-making route. SWA started a 1xdaily service to BHM after my airline (AA) cut back from 4xdaily to 3xdaily from DFW.

The DAL-BHM flight was also a way for Southwest to provide DAL customers with one-stop service to BWI - something that wasn't possible until late last year when the restrictions on through-ticketing to points outside the perimeter was lifted.

I agree with your other points, though. I don't think Southwest is going after either F9 or UA. I think they just see DEN as being a profitable station for them.

Mike

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I don't think WN had anything to do with that. Missouri lobbied hard to get added since they had quite a few residents in KC and St Louis that traveled to Dallas on a fairly regular basis. It was the Missouri congressmen that got it changed.

deleted by me

 

[jimntx]

Clarifying the 56-seat capacity limit was the main intention of the Shelby Amendment. AL, MS and KS being added to the Love Field service area was just a bonus.

Trust me. I am from BHM and the family knows Sen. Shelby of the Shelby Amendment. If there had been no agreement for addition of non-stop AL and MS service from DAL (which Legend had no intention of offering, but let's try to think who might ), there would have been no Shelby Amendment. Sen. Lott of MS went in with Sen. Shelby to get this added. No AL and MS, no Shelby Amendment.

 

[citrus jock]

I'm going to do an impression; see if you can guess who I am:

When do you think Southwest will add any more flights out of Denver? I thought that when they first started service to Denver, they would have more flights. I'm trying to get a relative from DEN to LAX, and don't know of any airline that flies that route. Any suggestions? Anyone know if SW will ever add more flights to/from DEN?

:blink:

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I'm going to do an impression; see if you can guess who I am:

When do you think Southwest will add any more flights out of Denver? I thought that when they first started service to Denver, they would have more flights. I'm trying to get a relative from DEN to LAX, and don't know of any airline that flies that route. Any suggestions? Anyone know if SW will ever add more flights to/from DEN?

:blink:

Either Mork or Mindy, narrowed it down that far!

 

[SharoninSAT]

I'm going to do an impression; see if you can guess who I am:

When do you think Southwest will add any more flights out of Denver? I thought that when they first started service to Denver, they would have more flights. I'm trying to get a relative from DEN to LAX, and don't know of any airline that flies that route. Any suggestions? Anyone know if SW will ever add more flights to/from DEN?

:blink:

flyingman... without a doubt! 😀

 

[DCaf]

Yes, flyingman, my favorite poster.

From what I've gathered from various aviation news sources, I don't think WNs expansion
to the east has been wildly profitable. BWI maybe (but notice they're cutting there too). PIT,
PHL and IAD haven't added much profit I don't think. I figure those cities to be more tactical
expansion than profit centers.

So the west is where it's at, especially California, for Southwest.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

The adds in DEN appear pretty much focused on F9 -- almost every new route they announced is an overlap with Frontier. They smell blood....

 

[BuffaloJoe]

flyingman... without a doubt! 😀

I was going to say that, but he's usually IAD.

 

[CynicalResAgent]

Yes, flyingman, my favorite poster.

From what I've gathered from various aviation news sources, I don't think WNs expansion
to the east has been wildly profitable. BWI maybe (but notice they're cutting there too). PIT,
PHL and IAD haven't added much profit I don't think. I figure those cities to be more tactical
expansion than profit centers.

So the west is where it's at, especially California, for Southwest.

WN does not do many unprofitable things for very long. I'd say, with relative certainty, that they are the most adaptive to changing business enviroments and most likely to try new things out of any US carrier.

How many quarters of consecutive profits? the post 9/11 industry slide did not even put them into the red.

BTW, Citrus that was a dead on impersontaion... I'd say your an internet Rich Little 😉

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

For those of you who don't live in Denver, you probably have very little idea just how successful Frontier has been at branding themselves here. The people of Colorado see Frontier as their "hometown" carrier, and they are fiercely loyal to that. I don't think the management at Southwest even has a clue. A few poster-ads hanging around DIA isn't going make a dent in anything. Most people in Denver still don't even know WN flies there, when F9 has been their preferred option for so long. Perhaps WN's management will finally "get" the picture when their "growth" at DEN nets them diddly-squat.

All things being equal, the people of Denver will choose Frontier, hands down. Should be interesting to see Southwest's reaction in a situation where they are definitely NOT the favored son, for a change.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm going to do an impression; see if you can guess who I am:

Well, I for one, am anxiously awaiting a well thought-out, cogent opinion on this from him/her.


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