Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

I'd covered such enlightened "thoughts" and "Harry Potter" levels of pure fantasy previously: "A handfull of actually reasonable and rational people in the right places and times would/could/should have prevented the whole thing from ever happening." You ain't one such.

cactusboy53: "Hurry up East. We're just waiting on you guys" Patience is a Virtue. You've my blessings to wait in PHX however long you wish to. Meanwhile...it's a fine day today. The nic's nowhere to be found...outside of Fantasyland, that is, and a gent I recently flew with is finally getting his left seat and a line back, which made for enjoyable conversation indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcVK7vL08PY

 

[luvthe9]

You seek to recover some of your failed career off the backs & seniority of the AWA pilot group (because you CAN'T get the money you've lost from anyone else).

Hurry up East. We're just waiting on you guys.

Wow, desperate and delusional is no way to go through life boy, where to you come up with all this crap? You need to talk to Dave he saw the light as alot more westies have, and are fed up with you wasting their money, almost 2 million dollars and for what. Hundreds of retirements coming soon, enjoy the stagnation. O'Dell is one happy camper.

 

[end_of_alpa]

No support what so ever. All you have to do is get Parker to accept DOH / DOH-lite & ratify the contract by a majority. It's that simple. You don't need the West for any of it.

Time's a wastin' East. The sooner that you get this new JCBA done, the quicker we will be to the end of this disaster.

You can not (speaking of painted in a corner) accept anything other than DOH / DOH-lite according to the USAPA Constitution & Bylaws & UOM. We will NOT accept anything other than an unchanged, unfenced, unmolested Nicolau Seniority list.

The Nicolau Seniority list is the ONLY legal, final and binding seniority list. NO court has EVER overturned a final & binding arbitrated list. The 9th & Silver have told you that you are free to negotiate anything you like, with the understanding that you must do so with a legitimate union purpose. DOH, DOH-lite (or any other concoction that USAPA comes up with will fail that test.

The Nicolau is the middle ground. It is the compromise. It is the final product of a legally agreed upon process. Will your bank allow you to live in your house and not pay house payments if you change your name to Mike Cleary? How is this any different?

BTW, the West has done nothing wrong. We came to the table, we agreed with your selection of arbitrators, we tried to mediate an agreement, and we followed the arbitrators rules. The arbitrator delivered a list that was determined by the authorities to be within the confines of the merger policy & Parker's terms of cost constraints.

You seek to recover some of your failed career off the backs & seniority of the AWA pilot group (because you CAN'T get the money you've lost from anyone else).

Hurry up East. We're just waiting on you guys.

Waiting to launch another round of fireworks at the BPR meeting next week?

 

[end_of_alpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcVK7vL08PY

This from a BPR rep.

Enjoy your career in PHX and enjoy your visit to CLT next week.

 

[luvthe9]

I hear the APA TA deal passed by better than 95%, let's hope we don't merge. http://aviationblog....econd-try.html/ Luv this part, "The pilots on Aug. 8 had rejected a previous proposal, known as American’s “last, best and final offer,” Looks like another bad day for Dougie!!!

 

[nevergiveup]

And whose fault is that?

My argument is that usapa and the company are both seeking to prolong separate ops.

The company to avoid higher pilot cost, and usapa to avoid the inevitable implementation of the Nic.


Hey, just reread the TA and both the company and usapa are in violation. It seems it has been 7 years and still no operational pilot integration. You do realize it is against the law to strip workers of their right to organize?

And, my references do support my arguments. Got a good faith LUP for reneging on binding arbitration? Doubt it, as the term good faith would imply one would actually live up to a contractual agreement. Got evidence why stapling the West is neither arbitrary or discriminatory?

Separate ops is good for the senior west pilots, but kills the jr. west pilots. They will upgrade faster with doh and a combined operation. It's their choice. Either way is fine with me.

 

[traderjake]

WW.ROCCLT.COM = ALPA'S PATHETIC REJECTS

WW ?

Having a little problem spelling "www"?


It is harder to spell than "knowing".

 

[nic4us]

DOH (really longevity but you didn't want any part of that either) IS the standard from which ALL seniroity lists are measured: there has never been a case where a DOH/longevity list has been found to be arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith....period. That IS a LUP.

How can I renege on something that hasn't come to a vote yet?

Here we go again.

Enjoy your holidays in PHX west pilots.

Has not come to a vote yet? The fact is, you do not get a vote on the Nic, go read the TA again. There is no means for a vote to approve of the results of the arbitration. Not only is there no vote, but the Nic is status quo at LCC...just ask Siegel!

Absolute falshood about your DOh gold standard. The actual standard in our industry is slotting by equipment and status. Virtually every seniority integration in the last 40 years has taken into account the status of the participants, even when it was decided to use a DOH methodology. Further, in the last 30 years the majority of pilot integrations have used slotting, and in the past 10 years virtually all have used slotting.

Where we stand is if usapa uses anythingnother than the Nic, the Nic will still be used to measure the wide range of reasonableness for the LUP.

You got no LUP, and the company is going to tell you to pound sand until a court absolutely absolves them from your DFR jihad,,,,,which ain't going to happen.

 

[nic4us]

Separate ops is good for the senior west pilots, but kills the jr. west pilots. They will upgrade faster with doh and a combined operation. It's their choice. Either way is fine with me.

A senior West F/O can make about what an east captain makes....if he is willing to work as hard as an east pilot on LOA93!

Don't need 5 weeks vacation, only take 2.5.

Use PBS and some constructive line bidding, trip trading, and there ya go another 100 hour month and they only flew 82.

 

[luvthe9]

WW ?

Having a little problem spelling "www"?


It is harder to spell than "knowing".

No Dan, I just did not want to fully provide that link, sure thought you would have been smart enough to figure that out, I was wrong, run along Chippy's calling you!. It's funny we are all seating here laughing at how excited you got.

 

[nevergiveup]

Has not come to a vote yet? The fact is, you do not get a vote on the Nic, go read the TA again. There is no means for a vote to approve of the results of the arbitration. Not only is there no vote, but the Nic is status quo at LCC...just ask Siegel!

Absolute falshood about your DOh gold standard. The actual standard in our industry is slotting by equipment and status. Virtually every seniority integration in the last 40 years has taken into account the status of the participants, even when it was decided to use a DOH methodology. Further, in the last 30 years the majority of pilot integrations have used slotting, and in the past 10 years virtually all have used slotting.

Where we stand is if usapa uses anythingnother than the Nic, the Nic will still be used to measure the wide range of reasonableness for the LUP.

You got no LUP, and the company is going to tell you to pound sand until a court absolutely absolves them from your DFR jihad,,,,,which ain't going to happen.

Getting a new contract and a pay raise for all is a LUP. The ninth said we probably cannot get that with the NIC. Therefore, using something other than the NIC that will benefit all, is in my book, a LUP.

 

[cactusboy53]

Wow, desperate and delusional is no way to go through life boy, where to you come up with all this crap? You need to talk to Dave he saw the light as alot more westies have, and are fed up with you wasting their money, almost 2 million dollars and for what. Hundreds of retirements coming soon, enjoy the stagnation. O'Dell is one happy camper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTRGlaLhDWo

 

[foreright]

its amazing how much i moved up in seniority on the last bid! nice to see some movement ... i got a 40$ hr raise! next bid is supposed to have another 120 new hires .

 

[cactusboy53]

This from a BPR rep.

Enjoy your career in PHX and enjoy your visit to CLT next week.

https://www.youtube....h?v=u0eoXW9aFjw

Just waiting on you Sunshine. USAPA is the only thing holding up your contract. Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Tick Tock.......

My career in PHX has been pretty good. It will be even better when I can bid the Captain seat in CLT, PHL or DCA as guaranteed by a final and binding seniority arbitration. The only thing that would make it truly better would be assessing damages to the parties responsible for this.

No growth in PHX (in fact having furloughed pilots still that had jobs when this mess started), while we have new hires in all the other bases. It actually concerns me that someone seems to be deliberately whipsawing one group against the the other. One might consider that collusion, let alone enabling.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Has not come to a vote yet? The fact is, you do not get a vote on the Nic, go read the TA again. There is no means for a vote to approve of the results of the arbitration. Not only is there no vote, but the Nic is status quo at LCC...just ask Siegel!

Absolute falshood about your DOh gold standard. The actual standard in our industry is slotting by equipment and status. Virtually every seniority integration in the last 40 years has taken into account the status of the participants, even when it was decided to use a DOH methodology. Further, in the last 30 years the majority of pilot integrations have used slotting, and in the past 10 years virtually all have used slotting.

Where we stand is if usapa uses anythingnother than the Nic, the Nic will still be used to measure the wide range of reasonableness for the LUP.

You got no LUP, and the company is going to tell you to pound sand until a court absolutely absolves them from your DFR jihad,,,,,which ain't going to happen.

Keep your "opinions". Next bid is going to be big again.

You, Dave and the rest of you can remain in PHX.

Enjoy your holidays.