The unions are coming, the unions are coming!

[Red Tail Bear]

MMB has no clue.....we went from old-style time clocks, with the the slot with the card and time stamp, then we went to the company ID swipe, now we have the new ID "scan" with added fingerprint "biometrics". If MMB thinks we can come and go at our convencience, tell that to the employees who thought that they could get away with time clock fraud and are now looking for another job.

And many many more who were fired for sleeping, stealing, and drinking on the job!!

 

[bagboy]

MMB is living in another world far from reality. Why would anyone carry a brick around to smash in windows when a spark plug fits in your pocket. The fight to keep DL union free is all but over. Time to assimilate. Resistance is futile.

 

[MMB]

Watch me: UNIONS DO NOT PRACTICE TERRORISM. Not since the '70's.

Hey, you admit they have in the recent past, you're half way there.
What is that spark plug for that bagboy is carrying around in his pocket?

You people really are ... gems. I ask what should be a simple question, and you don’t even try to address it. Instead you throw challenges and then don’t even bother to read the replies. Time clocks in a closed union (IAM) shop... Sound like Delta? No it doesn't, does it?
Airlinelifer: My union rhetoric?
I asked for and gave you a chance to make your case. Instead you've reinforced mine.
Let's try this; How much better off are they at UA? NW? JB? US?

Unions pass the plate and then sell you out at the bargaining table. I watched that in San Antonio. The Teamsters Union settled for less than a third of what they were offered in order to keep bonuses for productive workers out of the contract. During negotiations they threatened legal action when the corporate negotiator suggested posting their proposed contract on the bulletin boards for all to see and vote on.

I listened to the union pitch when the salesmen came through at Delta. I heard all the pretty words and asked only one thing: Are you going to personally guarantee all that in writing and make up any and all shortfalls? I think you can guess the answer. If you're going to make promises, you have to be willing and able to back them up.

 

[Come Fly with Me]

Hey, you admit they have in the recent past, you're half way there.
What is that spark plug for that bagboy is carrying around in his pocket?

You people really are ... gems. I ask what should be a simple question, and you don’t even try to address it. Instead you throw challenges and then don’t even bother to read the replies. Time clocks in a closed union (IAM) shop... Sound like Delta? No it doesn't, does it?
Airlinelifer: My union rhetoric?
I asked for and gave you a chance to make your case. Instead you've reinforced mine.
Let's try this; How much better off are they at UA? NW? JB? US?

Unions pass the plate and then sell you out at the bargaining table. I watched that in San Antonio. The Teamsters Union settled for less than a third of what they were offered in order to keep bonuses for productive workers out of the contract. During negotiations they threatened legal action when the corporate negotiator suggested posting their proposed contract on the bulletin boards for all to see and vote on.

I listened to the union pitch when the salesmen came through at Delta. I heard all the pretty words and asked only one thing: Are you going to personally guarantee all that in writing and make up any and all shortfalls? I think you can guess the answer. If you're going to make promises, you have to be willing and able to back them up.

Once again I respect your union rhetoric but like I said in my past posting. I've been working for Delta for 13 straight years. I've seen three CEO's in my time. They all had it in writing and yet I still don't have mine in writing. The only thing I have to show is a frozen pension, out of pocket medical is $400, a 19% pay cut , and now I have to pay 50 bucks to renew my flying benifits every year. That's not including my sick time they took away. MMB please give me a better reason to vote no. I know for years Delta always told us we were the better payed airline....do you still believe that?

 

[luv2fly]

The only thing I have to show is a frozen pension, out of pocket medical is $400, a 19% pay cut , and now I have to pay 50 bucks to renew my flying benifits every year. That's not including my sick time they took away. MMB please give me a better reason to vote no. I know for years Delta always told us we were the better payed airline....do you still believe that?

The only think I would ask is how other airline employee group work rules compare to yours. Compare annual pay, sick leave, and other benefits. If you find a big enough disparity then you have your answer. Don't forget you will pay a premium for those additional benefits. A cost you should factor in your decision.
Whatever you do, don't vote unionize simply because of perceived disparity. Union's are not a fix all solution. They have benefits and pitfalls like anything else.

 

[Kev3188]

The only think I would ask is how other airline employee group work rules compare to yours. Compare annual pay, sick leave, and other benefits. If you find a big enough disparity then you have your answer. Don't forget you will pay a premium for those additional benefits. A cost you should factor in your decision.

Here's a couple of examples:

Medical cost:

At NWA: $177.02

At DAL: $400.00 (using Come fly with me's #'s)

That alone would be worth going union, as you'd pay $49.00/mo. to save $223.

Vacation:

At NWA: 6 weeks

At DAL: 4 weeks

Sick time:

At NWA: unlimited

At DAL: 7 days annually.

There's 3 examples alone that should make for an easy decision for the DL folks, and that doesn't even broach things like work rules, FT/PT ratios, layoff protection, etc.

For anyone who'd like to look past the hype, and educate themselves, both of our CBA's are posted online. Go www.iam143.org to find them. The CSA CBA is marked "COFPS," and the ramp and stock clerk CBA is marked "ESSC."

Whatever you do, don't vote unionize simply because of perceived disparity. Union's are not a fix all solution. They have benefits and pitfalls like anything else.

I agree 100%, however in this case, choosing to go union is a no-brainer.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Here's a couple of examples:

Medical cost:

At NWA: $177.02

At DAL: $400.00 (using Come fly with me's #'s)

That alone would be worth going union, as you'd pay $49.00/mo. to save $223.

Vacation:

At NWA: 6 weeks

At DAL: 4 weeks

Sick time:

At NWA: unlimited

At DAL: 7 days annually.

There's 3 examples alone that should make for an easy decision for the DL folks, and that doesn't even broach things like work rules, FT/PT ratios, layoff protection, etc.

For anyone who'd like to look past the hype, and educate themselves, both of our CBA's are posted online. Go www.iam143.org to find them. The CSA CBA is marked "COFPS," and the ramp and stock clerk CBA is marked "ESSC."




I agree 100%, however in this case, choosing to go union is a no-brainer.

By Golly Kev, you're letting facts get in the way! It's the Delta's non-union employees God-given southerner's right not to vote a union in: even if they are from the NORTH!

For the Delta employee that has been around a while, here is one of the most well informed comments that I have read in a looooooooooong time. The author's original can be found here:

http://www.deltaramp.blogspot.com/

Wednesday, February 27, 2008

CONNECT THE DOTS…

IAM OPPOSES MERGER
JOB LOSS ON THE HORIZON


Somewhere along the way in all this ‘happy talk’ about merging with another airline, Delta and the other carriers forgot to ask any of us, besides the pilots, how we felt about the entire process. Things are moving way too fast and the tough questions that should have been discussed prior to the Pan-Am fiasco are not being carefully scrutinized during this process.

Who can forget the hemorrhaging of cash that took place during our bold but poorly thought out venture into Europe? The billions spent and squandered were the beginnings of Delta's financial unraveling during the early nineties and lead to the eventual dismantling of a once proud and profitable airline. Remember how great our benefits were and how much money we made back then? One bad move and it was over, we suffered a decade of demise and financial ruin. Poor decision making was followed by more poor leadership and bankruptcy was delivered to our doorstep.

All those people are gone; some stopped by the bank on their way out the door and deposited their guaranteed millions. Others just faded into oblivion only to have their names uttered with disdain and disgust. Doesn’t it feel like we are heading down that same path again? New leaders; same old rush to make their mark.

A year ago Delta didn’t have two pennies to rub together and now all of a sudden it has become a King Maker. The marvels of the bankruptcy laws have turned Delta into a power broker and it could set off a wave of consolidation that would most probably cause years of havoc within the entire industry. Mergers are messy, sloppy and generally expensive affairs that give the few short term gains and long lasting financial headaches for the rest.

The pilots have (if you believe the media reports) been offered billions of dollars of equity in the new merged company and guaranteed raises as much as 30% for some. This capital has to be generated from somewhere; it can’t be manufactured out of whole cloth. It has to be taken from somebody.

Could it be that the reason the Companies are not talking to the IAM and are not talking to us is that we are the ‘revenue stream’ that these monies will be flowing from? Why not? They have certainly done it in the past. During bankruptcy our pay was slashed and our benefits made to almost disappear. We have not recovered even a fraction of any of it...but now the company has billions to give to our Pilots.

The time has come to recognize our vulnerability to our Company’s rash decisions. We cannot survive another journey into the financial wilderness that this merger might deliver us without the protection of a legally binding contract. They covered their mistakes in the past by contracting out over 100 of our cities. We don’t have much more to give them and should not trust that this management team has any more quality answers than those teams of the past. Our memory is long and fooling us again should not be in the cards.

The IAM is opposing this merger because the Companies aren’t talking to anyone but the pilots; that fact alone should tell all of us what kind of future we will have without representation. Let’s act together and unionize or watch as we are individually ‘cut from the herd’ to help pay for the pilots new burgeoning portfolio. Union now!

posted by Delta Ramp @ 7:31 AM

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

LukeAisleWalker

You say 'without name calling', yet that ability appears to be beyond you (insecure, radical, offensive, apathetic, narrow-minded). Still, yours was better than the others, in that it at least had some substance, so:


There is no way you can say that unions do not practice terrorism.
Vandalism, arson, assault, murder, ... All are tactics common to union activity. Whether it is a brick, a bullet, a plane, or a burning cross, it is all the same.


Your turn:
Saying that you have to perform work does not answer my question.
Why are you union worshipers so threatened by those who choose not to worship at your alter, that you consider terrorism in the union's name as acceptable?
If you plan on saying you don't, then explain how having a brick flung through your car window isn't terrorism. Or being shot for crossing a picket line.
If you are pimping the union, you are selling ALL of its activities.

MMB--You watch too much FoxNews. You forget that this board has a profile and history feature. I've seen your past posts. You have spewed venom at anyone whose political leanings are different (to the left) of yours. Your responses are sensational baiting tactics. They give lessons for that every night on Fox from O'reilly and Hannity. Your bringing the word 'terrorism' into the discussion proves my point.
No one else on this thread has had their posts deleted by the moderator for being offensive except you. So if being called narrow-minded or insecure remotely compares to what you wrote (the deleted part), then you are truly hyper-sensitive. Nothing wrong with that...just be prepared for spirited response when you compare hard-working people who just want a say in their work lives to terrorists (and worse...again your deleted comment.) Finally, I will answer your question. I am NOT threatened whatsoever by people who don't want the union. I am pro-contract; I do not believe unions are the be-all, end-all. I just feel that in today's airline environment, we at Delta need things in writing. Finally, your last statement about "pimping the union and selling ALL of its activities" is another example of rhetoric from an extremist, black and white mentality. Not to mention that the union I am voting for is not IAM or Teamsters...just AFA. No bricks, no guns, none of that. Most of our group are comparing restaurants, beauty products, recipes and pictures of their cats dressed in Halloween costumes. The others can continue to spar with you but after a look at your previous posts in various forums, I won't waste any more of my time.

 

[joanjet]

I believe what AA1016 was stating is, what would be BEST for DELTA F/A's.
The PanAm AQUISITION (not merger as some believe) was fair and equitable for Delta F/A's.
In reading what AA1016 has to say, it does make sense. No union now, the worse we can get is DOH,
and hope for something better i.e slot in. and then vote in a Union. I think we need a Union, however
I would be reluctant if I knew it was going to be run by either NW/UA flight attendants. JMHO

 

[MMB]

To bad, so sad, bye-bye

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

To bad, so sad, bye-bye

And you are how old? Go play on the right-wing boards. I'm sure they'd love to have such a prolific writer.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

...There is no way you can say that unions do not practice terrorism.
Vandalism, arson, assault, murder, ... All are tactics common to union activity. Whether it is a brick, a bullet, a plane, or a burning cross, it is all the same.

...And now we all know that we've got to watch out for those brick throwin' flight attendants!

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

,
There is no way you can say that unions do not practice terrorism.
Vandalism, arson, assault, murder, ... All are tactics common to union activity. Whether it is a brick, a bullet, a plane, or a burning cross, it is all the same.



LMAO - man that kool-aid must have been spiked when handed to you in your DAL glass... Grow up, I am so sure that the flight attendants will all have their rifles out ready to take control.. You are out of line and out of control.

 

[MMB]

As I’ve said,
I worked in an open shop for 4 months. What was said and done by the good union members because I chose not to join, did nothing but reinforce my decision.
I belonged to a union at a closed shop for a year. What I saw and experienced convinced me that I did not want to be in another. This was a big part of why I chose to work at Delta.
Seeing the Teamsters negotiations from the other side was another education in union agendas.

I’m old enough to know that hurting others to satisfy your own greed is wrong.
The teamsters sold their members out for something those members weren’t allowed to know.
Borman sold Eastern to Lorenzo because of the unions, in an effort to save Eastern from itself. Yes, Lorenzo was a piece of work, but the IAM exposed their agenda when they refused to talk with Marty Shugrue. It was the IAM that put 20,000+ Eastern employees out of work.

 

[North by Northwest]

MMB--You watch too much FoxNews. You forget that this board has a profile and history feature. I've seen your past posts. You have spewed venom at anyone whose political leanings are different (to the left) of yours. Your responses are sensational baiting tactics. They give lessons for that every night on Fox from O'reilly and Hannity. Your bringing the word 'terrorism' into the discussion proves my point.
No one else on this thread has had their posts deleted by the moderator for being offensive except you. So if being called narrow-minded or insecure remotely compares to what you wrote (the deleted part), then you are truly hyper-sensitive. Nothing wrong with that...just be prepared for spirited response when you compare hard-working people who just want a say in their work lives to terrorists (and worse...again your deleted comment.) Finally, I will answer your question. I am NOT threatened whatsoever by people who don't want the union. I am pro-contract; I do not believe unions are the be-all, end-all. I just feel that in today's airline environment, we at Delta need things in writing. Finally, your last statement about "pimping the union and selling ALL of its activities" is another example of rhetoric from an extremist, black and white mentality. Not to mention that the union I am voting for is not IAM or Teamsters...just AFA. No bricks, no guns, none of that. Most of our group are comparing restaurants, beauty products, recipes and pictures of their cats dressed in Halloween costumes. The others can continue to spar with you but after a look at your previous posts in various forums, I won't waste any more of my time.

Luke,

You and I know how deep the non union river flows with some folks. They will sing a different tune if the monster goes down. Things have changed for the worse for the industry. IF...anyone at Delta Airlines thinks R Anderson is looking "out" for the Delta "family"? I suggest you get familiar with the local bread lines.

RAnderson will do what the Hedge Funds tell him and the BOD to do. If a deal means sacrificing a few thousand NON UNION employees...what do you think?