The unions are coming, the unions are coming!

[BABABOOY]

Danny,
Was any NW flying lost to compass?
I am trying to understand the differences between the
way Song was set up and Compass and TED. At Song
flying was lost (great trips) and the flight attendants were
seperated. No cross flying. Different pay/duty rigs/401K etc.
Some f/a's signed an agreement that they would sever ties with Delta.
Of course that didn't happen. Delta offered them jobs. Delta Pilots
flew Song a/c. The way they handled the situation with In-Flight was a
disaster. They created a huge division between the two groups and sucessfully
pitted us against eachother. Mainly in the bases of MFL/MCO/BOS/NYC/LAX.
Majority of ATL base had no clue as to how this was dividing us.

 

[Danny Campbell]

Bababooy:

With Compass, we lost very little flying -- as they operate far fewer flights than TED or Song.

So, what happened with Song? When did it cease in operation - and why? Were the Song rules and pay better or worse than mainline/international flights with Delta?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Danny,
Was any NW flying lost to compass?
I am trying to understand the differences between the
way Song was set up and Compass and TED. At Song
flying was lost (great trips) and the flight attendants were
seperated. No cross flying. Different pay/duty rigs/401K etc.
Some f/a's signed an agreement that they would sever ties with Delta.
Of course that didn't happen. Delta offered them jobs. Delta Pilots
flew Song a/c. The way they handled the situation with In-Flight was a
disaster. They created a huge division between the two groups and sucessfully
pitted us against eachother. Mainly in the bases of MFL/MCO/BOS/NYC/LAX.
Majority of ATL base had no clue as to how this was dividing us.

Song was one of the biggest mistakes, if not the biggest, Delta ever made.
As far as pitting FAs against each other, DL has never really encouraged 'unity' between us FAs at Delta. What you say??!! Think about it. Yes, they have always encouraged Teamwork and getting along, but UNITY...never. Look at what's contained in that word--UNITY? U N I _ _.
Listen to how man FAs at Delta speak, "MY" seniority, "MY" AFP. There are FAs who were in senior bases 6 years ago and voted for the union. Now, they are in NY and are holding great trips/time off. Some I've talked to are no longer interested in a union. Kind of self-serving, don't you think?
This is slightly on the same topic but there is a memo in the lounge which speaks to the possiblity of a merger--DL's memo said if we vote in AFA and we join w/ an AFA carrier, then yes, it would be date of hire. However, if we do not vote in the union, the memo states DL FAs will "have a seat at the table" in seniority integration as in past mergers/acquisitions. I almost busted a gut laughing when I saw this. I was here for the Western merger and the PanAm acquisition. I remember NO seat at the table ever being offered. Yes, there were a handful of FAs involved--they were the usual, VERY senior, minions and handmaidens of the G.O. and the outcome proved it: With Western, the top 300 DL FAs were protected; with PanAm, the top 3,000 DL FAs were protected. NO PanAm FA went ahead of the first 3000 DL FAs. The rest of us were left scratching our heads.
And, of course, I don't ever remember voting for these supposed representatives nor voting on the outcome--there was just a memo, like w/ everything else, saying 'this is what's going to happen..'

 

[Danny Campbell]

Bababooy:

This video clip is for you <wink> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWjfs4RWFk

Danny

 

[USAir757]

DL's memo said if we vote in AFA and we join w/ an AFA carrier, then yes, it would be date of hire. However, if we do not vote in the union, the memo states DL FAs will "have a seat at the table" in seniority integration as in past mergers/acquisitions. I almost busted a gut laughing when I saw this. I was here for the Western merger and the PanAm acquisition. I remember NO seat at the table ever being offered.

Why worry? Union or not, AFA has a "very strict" policy on DOH integration... so why do you need a seat at the table?

 

[cooper43]

Why worry? Union or not, AFA has a "very strict" policy on DOH integration... so why do you need a seat at the table?

Hey guys, I've been reading some of the past post and just wanted to make a few comments. I'm leaning towards voting for AFA but timing is everything. Am I correct that if we vote AFA in now.... DAL and NWA will intergrate f/a senority by date of hire, but if we dont vote for AFA now then it is possible that DAL (management) may be able to negotioate DAL f/as something better, but at the worse DOH. Also this is a true merger right? With DAL manegment and most of the seats on the BOD. So why are some NWA f/a's saying that they will be in control because they are unionized?

 

[700UW]

No it would go to arbitration, and that is a crap shoot.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Why worry? Union or not, AFA has a "very strict" policy on DOH integration... so why do you need a seat at the table?

Not correct, 757. The AFA bylaws/consitution state that if an AFA carrier mergers with ANOTHER AFA carrier, then it is DOH integration.
Otherwise, it is open to "fair and equitable" per the new law.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Hey guys, I've been reading some of the past post and just wanted to make a few comments. I'm leaning towards voting for AFA but timing is everything. Am I correct that if we vote AFA in now.... DAL and NWA will intergrate f/a senority by date of hire, but if we dont vote for AFA now then it is possible that DAL (management) may be able to negotioate DAL f/as something better, but at the worse DOH. Also this is a true merger right? With DAL manegment and most of the seats on the BOD. So why are some NWA f/a's saying that they will be in control because they are unionized?

Cooper, according to DELTA's latest memo, DL FAs would "nominate and vote to elect your peers to an integration committee. Arbitration would be available if the groups were unable to reach agreement."
So, do you think NW FAs are going to give their seniority away in this process? No and they shouldn't; no more than you or I would give ours away. So henceforth, the most likely outcome would be arbitration and no matter what the arbitrator decides (and it may very well NOT be in all DL FAs favor), it becomes the new list. Period.
To answer your question, the CEO of our company is former NW, the present CEO of NW will have a seat and a little less than half of the BODs will be made up of former NW BODs.

 

[USAir757]

Not correct, 757. The AFA bylaws/consitution state that if an AFA carrier mergers with ANOTHER AFA carrier, then it is DOH integration.
Otherwise, it is open to "fair and equitable" per the new law.

I'm sorry - Do NW F/A's bring more seniority than DL?

 

[MMB]

.... Also this is a true merger right? With DAL manegment and most of the seats on the BOD. So why are some NWA f/a's saying that they will be in control because they are unionized?

The same reason WA FAs said the same thing. And NE FAs. Didn't happen then, ....
Its called union recruiting through fear and intimidation. They’ll take you any way they can, and go to any lengths they have to.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

The same reason WA FAs said the same thing. And NE FAs. Didn't happen then, ....
Its called union recruiting through fear and intimidation. They’ll take you any way they can, and go to any lengths they have to.

WA f/a's never said this.
NW f/a's are merely saying that if DL votes down the union and a mutually agreed-upon seniority list cannot be produced, it will go to arbitration and the outcome is anyone's guess. It may help some DL f/a's seniority and disadvantage others..it will be up to the arbitrator.
Date of hire for non-pilot employees is the only fair way to do this for all employee groups in this type of merger. (Remember, this is not an acquisition of assets a la Pan Am where the PA person seeking employment w/ Delta must interview).

 

[cooper43]

WA f/a's never said this.
NW f/a's are merely saying that if DL votes down the union and a mutually agreed-upon seniority list cannot be produced, it will go to arbitration and the outcome is anyone's guess. It may help some DL f/a's seniority and disadvantage others..it will be up to the arbitrator.
Date of hire for non-pilot employees is the only fair way to do this for all employee groups in this type of merger. (Remember, this is not an acquisition of assets a la Pan Am where the PA person seeking employment w/ Delta must interview).

I Just want to make the best decision and that is selfish I know. I have no animosity (sp) towards any NW f/a's but I dont want to make a choice about the union and then have it bite me in the ass. Delta is offering early retirements as we speak, and if we have a lot of senior people leave and then we merge DOH then that could really affect my senority. Does that make sense? what would you do in the same situation? wouldnt you be a little curious that you might come out a little better if Delta negotiated you a better ranking than date of hire? Delta has always tried to take care of thier people in the past. At least from what I can see.

 

[BABABOOY]

Date of hire for non-pilot employees is the only fair way to do this for all employee groups in this type of merger. (

Curious, Why is it Fair for us F/A's and NOT fair for our Pilot group? How did NW
handle their intergration with republic?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Curious, Why is it Fair for us F/A's and NOT fair for our Pilot group? How did NW
handle their intergration with republic?

Booy--The way I understand it is that it is a much more complex process for pilots as they are categorized by a/c type and then subcategorized again by seat (capt/fo).
With FAs, we have no restrictions on what we can fly. We fly whatever we can hold in our respective bases. We are not bound by particular a/c type. The only restrictions would be to training type (international, latin america, etc...) and that is easily overcome by a day of training.