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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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The Furloughs and the Warnings

U turn speaks out on the US Airways (west) furloughs.

These furloughs are bad news. But look what caused them, no furlough protection in the TA and four other big mistakes by the MEC.

The Furloughs and the Warnings Frank Helton and I warned everyone about furloughs back in September 2005 when we were the only Reps to vote against the Transition Agreement. We told you our main reason: no furlough protection in the TA. So what did C-62 pilots decide to do? They recalled us because we voted against the TA! We were replaced by company/ALPA yes-men, Rick Pitt and CJ Szmal. So while you’re updating your resume, think of why you’re getting furloughed.


Guys, we had the leverage back then to protect everyone down to Dave O’Dell with a No Furlough Clause. ALPA National pushed the other West Reps and the MEC officers hard to cut the deal and we ended up with no furlough protection in the TA. The East had about 1700 pilots on furlough on their list, but most of them had other jobs and weren’t coming back. They had almost 200 retirements a year. We had no furloughs and only about 25 retirements a year. In the next two years, the company recalled everyone who wanted to come back and upgraded over 400 east pilots mainly due to attrition, but also with expansion by picking up more East-West flying than we did. We upgraded only 30 and hired less on our side. Frank and I wanted furlough protection. ALPA National and the MEC officers just wanted an agreement that protected the merger. Our Merger Attorney butted in with an August 29, 2005 email telling the MEC (not the Reps) that we needed an agreement more than the East did. The Reps only got copies of it by accident. On the no-furlough clause, Freund said: “Fourth, in an event, as I have explained, to the extent your objections are to the absence of a no furlough clause, I don’t think you will ever get one and I don’t think you want one.” These furloughs are bad news. But look what caused them, no furlough protection in the TA and four other big mistakes by the MEC.


The first mistake was not starting Section 6 in June 2006. Don’t blame the East for that one. Their MEC encouraged us to enter Section 6 with a resolution. But ALPA said NO and our MEC bought off on it. No telling what a Section 6 contract would have gotten us. Section 6 had leverage. JNC talks didn’t. We could have had a contract that the east might have agreed to before the NIC Award came out. Remember our “Leverage Lost” U-Turn? U-Turn warned you.


The second was not accepting the East’s 40% offer on the new B-757 slots in April 2006. That cost us 8 Captain and 8 FO slots, 16 furloughs. Instead we ended up with that useless B-757 LOU/IOU. Remember our very first email, before we used the name U-Turn? U-Turn warned you.


Third was not accepting the East’s 40% offer on the E-190. By turning that offer down, we lost in arbitration and got another IOU. If we had taken the E-190 deal, we could have gotten 40% of the Captain slots and with down-sizing, 40% of the FO slots. In the East’s 08-04 down-sizing bid, there are 229 E-190 positions in PHL/CLT. If we had agreed to East’s June ‘06 proposal, we would have locked in 40% of the slots or 91 fewer furloughs. Add those to the 16 B-757 positions and we would have only 68 furloughs, not 175. The additional 107 furloughs would have all come out of the East.


U-Turn warned about the dangers of not accepting the East E-190 offer as talks broke down in late June ’06 over the Dotter/McIlvenna rotating bidding plan. But our MEC had a better plan. It didn’t work. U-Turn warned you.


The fourth mistake was not pursuing the East-West flying dispute. Even the East Reps thought the company was violating the TA when they first started flying LAS-LAX turns. Their pilots refused them until ordered to by the company. We’ll never know how many furloughs a TA dispute could have stopped, but the MEC refused to file one.


Once again, U-Turn warned you. Guys, the AWAPPA leaders are the same ones who messed up when they were in office. It’s time to stop listening to them. It may be too late now, but if you don’t get your heads out of your sand and file grievances with the union that we’re stuck with, how are they going to know where we are coming from and what we demand? Just a reminder, with the ATA/AWA agreement (which was approved by the company) we had 18 months after the joint contract and single carrier which ever took longer. Delta received furlough protection for 24 months after everything is done.


Dave Blomgren, for the Mighty U-Turn
 
Phoenix Crew News February 6, 2007

Pilot: I hear you stand there and talk about how great the view is on your side of the podium is like my compatriot Coladio saying on this side we are pretty upset. You are touting all these improvements but I just wanted to tell you from our view what we’ve seen accomplished. Since this merger was announced it has been complete stagnation for our pilot group. Our schedules are what we are able to do as far as bidding that type of thing. None of that has improved. The pilots that were hired here three years ago have the same schedules that they had. They don’t have weekends off. They spend the same amount of time away from their families. Pilots that we had in our hiring pool were sent home. Pilots that are on the east pilot group are being recalled. America West and this pilot group put you in a position to where you could acquire US Airways. We don’t see that as fair at all. Speaking of unfair, the seniority boarding thing you’ve come out with we view it as a real farce. It’s not seniority boarding, it’s date of hire. There’s people that are on furlough-- pilots that are on furlough that have a greater day of hire than me. They don’t have a job right now when they come back they are going to bump me out of a seat. It’s also a violation of our contract Section 26 says you can’t make any changes to that benefit. We’ve also heard from Scott Kirby that this cost neutral thing was a big mistake and we were told to expect some changes at the bargaining table. Last time we were at bargaining it was pretty apparent from our side that management didn’t spend any time they just came in handed sections out of the east contract. If we follow through on our plan of action while flying an aircraft the way that management is following through on their plan of action, there would be craters in the desert. The question I have for you today is if you agree that as pilots that we should focus on doing our jobs and running this airline as safely as possible.

CEO Doug Parker: The answer to that question is Yes. And let me talk about some of the comments you made. First off, as to the stagnation of growth for America West pilots since the merger what I will tell you is, and this is a hard thing to communicate to people but I believe it with all my heart, that if we didn’t do the merger with US Airways you’d be in a lot worse position. And frankly I think as a 3-year FO, you wouldn’t have a job. We would have gone through a bankruptcy filing. We would have downsized. We had an airline at America West that had 20% lower unit revenues than US Airways and now has the same unit cost. That airline could not survive. We would try to make it better. We’d go file bankruptcy. We’d get ourselves a little stronger now the economy is back we’d be trying to come out like Delta is. But I swear to you that airline was going to file bankruptcy. When it filed bankruptcy we would have downsized at least 15% and you know while you feel bad about stagnation, you should feel better about that versus where you were headed. And that’s we were headed. So I feel very good about what we were able to do with the America West team through the merger because believe me the standalone plan was not gonna work. So again I mean that’s hard for you to appreciate because you never saw it but, you know, it was coming. So that’s point 1.
 
From: u-turn [mailto:awapilots@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: U-Turn: Where Politics Needs to Stop


U-Turn Nation:


Under the heading of "You can't make up this stuff," we read the below on a popular blog entitled flightinfo.com. It is reposted in its entirety, without edit. As we have often posted, U-Turn will not get into the Addington DFR debate. That will be solved by the courts. But attempting to turn Captain Sullenberger's appointment to US Airways' management safety team into a political issue? All we can say is consider the source.


U-Turn will accept letters expressing differing opinions, but we also reserve the right not to post them. U-Turn believes that safety is not and should never be turned into a political issue.






Posts: 61
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: Jetz and props
Ratings: ATP, MEI, FE B-727, B-737 type
Curr Position: Flying for the aquiring airline
Total Time: 11,000

Sully, welcome to Phoenix
Open letter to Doug Parker.

September 28, 2009
Mr. Douglas Parker
CEO & Chairman of the Board
US Airways, Inc.
111 W. Rio Salado Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281

VIA EMAIL

Dear Doug:

I'm writing to express my complete and utter disappointment with
today's announcement that Captain Sullenberger will be appointed to a
management position within the company. In fact, as a result of Capt.
Sullenberger's decision to use his new found fame as a weapon against
1800 former America West pilots in a recent federal court case over
pilot seniority, I find the company's announcement particularly
insulting. Not only does this decision now forever discredit the
company's purported "neutrality" in the pilot seniority issue, but it
also calls in to question the credibility of the entire safety
management team. As I hope you'll agree, it is in everybody's best
interests to keep flight safety an issue that is far removed from
politics.

I can respect that Capt. Sullenberger has his own personal opinions
regarding the seniority situation, however, I believe that his
decision to testify in court raises reasonable question as to his
ability to adequately perform his new duties without bias. Capt.
Sullenberger did not provide any relevant testimony in the case, and
was only called to testify by USAPA in the hopes that his celebrity
status would unfairly influence a jury. Instead of limiting the use
his celebrity status in support of productive goals such as promoting
aviation safety and the image of US Airways, he blatantly abused that
status by unnecessarily inserting himself on the losing side of an
issue that he played no prior role in. I cannot be reasonably assured
that he would not similarly misuse his position in management.

While I'm certain that this letter will fall on deaf ears, I can
assure you that this letter by no means an end to this issue, and that
you will be in need of much more than a well polished statement at a
crew news session to address it.

Sincerely,
/s/
Mitch Vasin
PHX 320 FO



SEEMS SULLY LIVES " RENT FREE" in Mitch's head






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Please send all e-mails to americawestpilots@hotmail.com
 
... AND have 14yrs left to play.....

BTW son; anyone cursed with the necessarily infantile arrogance required to imagine they're able to see a decade and some into the future should never foolishly ascribe themselves to be any semblance of "adult"...save purely for laughs. 😉

Lastly; no one but a pathetically immature, complete jackazz would ever take pictures of others within their work environment for world-wide publication without the expressly given consent of all involved....Period.

Grow Up.
 
Last edited:
BTW son; anyone cursed with the necessarily infantile arrogance required to imagine they're able to see a decade and some into the future should never foolishly ascribe themselves to be any semblance of "adult"...save purely for laughs. 😉

Lastly; no one but a pathetically immature, complete jackazz would ever take pictures of their work environment for world-wide publication without the expressly given consent of all involved....Period.

Grow Up.

Hmmmm very interesting and very wrong. See you are of the mind set based upon what you have see HERE that photos are being taken on the slide. 99.9 % of the photos taken have ME in them AND most of the time ME being the focal point and not them. Now the one's where im not the focal point I ask them to lets take a photo together.

Now you all can try and flip this anyway you want and make it about photos when we ALL know the truth. This page is FULL of EAST bashing west pilots. Posting photos of west pilots, digging up traffic offenses and other PRIVATE COURT ACTIONS. DOCUMENTED PROOF!!! Think long and hard my man when you use terms like jackazz. Now many of the west pilots dont give two rats azzes about what you post about them with photos I on the other had DO and will not tolerate it!!! See I never came to this fleet with the intent of dealing with long since dead SLI issues, its over and done and has been for some time. The fact that folks cant let it go is their problem not mine. I have been 1000% kind to EVERYONE in philly up to and including TOM. The fact that he chose to attack me on an open forum with EAST WEST BULL$HIT said it all now didnt it? Then to have Mike G and I wont call you by name because we've been down that road in the past all band wagon his BS is nothing more that east bashing west PERIOD. Now i have had nothing but pure fun with each and every philly AA crew I have flown with both cockpit and cabin and unless asked or somehow we get on the subject I dont even bring up the fact that I am west. Why??? BECAUSE ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!
 
Question: Did Ray chastise his Facebook buddies who made disparaging comments about the East crew in the pictures?

Answer: No.
 
BTW son; anyone cursed with the necessarily infantile arrogance required to imagine they're able to see a decade and some into the future should never foolishly ascribe themselves to be any semblance of "adult"...save purely for laughs. 😉

Lastly; no one but a pathetically immature, complete jackazz would ever take pictures of others within their work environment for world-wide publication without the expressly given consent of all involved....Period.

Grow Up.

Nailed it.
 
Question: Did Ray chastise his Facebook buddies who made disparaging comments about the East crew in the pictures?

Answer: No.


He set those pictures up to show east pilots in what he felt were compromising positions. Then he was caught red handed.

This is not acceptable at all. The west pilot responses say it all.
A33Pylot needs to apologize to those pilots. He perpetuated the east west battle with those pics. He is the one who wanted to keep the issue alive.
Nice try Ray, BUSTED!!!
 
  • Use Company logo or trademarked items as your accountavatar unless authorized.
  • Post inappropriate pictures. Don’t post inappropriate pictures and/or post pictures of you or others in uniform. FM Part 1 15.1.21 not to mention 5.1.12, but hey everybody can track a post time or event on social media while they were in flight, As a wise friend of mine long retired before his time and has international media exposure as a safety consultant once said to me and we laugh about it to this day, " They are not out to get you, but they are! "
 
Question: Did Ray chastise his Facebook buddies who made disparaging comments about the East crew in the pictures?

Answer: No.
Believe what ever you wish to believe how ever you wish to believe it. I have already said why and what I post and its very consistent. I stopped caring about the east west non sense long ago. Many in both places still have issues but I REFUSE to play referee just because YOU think I should!! I am not taking sides, I have unlike you MOVED ON.

Now if you two want to make this about my facebook for which I have east a west pilots on as friends then you go right ahead and do ya best in that regard. I have over 800 pages right here proving my point of which the majority YOU are a regular in the bashing of west pilots. Careful who you mess with, I ain't the one!!! I can ID you ALL!!!
 
Question: Did Ray chastise his Facebook buddies who made disparaging comments about the East crew in the pictures?

Answer: No.

Believe what ever you wish to believe how ever you wish to believe it. I have already said why and what I post and its very consistent. I stopped caring about the east west non sense long ago. Many in both places still have issues but I REFUSE to play referee just because YOU think I should!! I am not taking sides, I have unlike you MOVED ON.

Now if you two want to make this about my facebook for which I have east a west pilots on as friends then you go right ahead and do ya best in that regard. I have over 800 pages right here proving my point of which the majority YOU are a regular in the bashing of west pilots. Careful who you mess with, I ain't the one!!! I can ID you ALL!!!


Ray did everything but answer the question. 😀
 
Ray did everything but answer the question. 😀

Deflecting again just like kicking down a door then morphed in to pounding 🙄. Then we go to taking photo's in some childish effort to somehow embarrass people now to did I jump up and say stop don't do that. Ok let me say this again seeing as how you missed it, I WONT REFEREE PERIOD!!! GET IT??? I have each and every photo to show anyone who wishes to see them and they will see its mostly all about ME!!

I have neither the time nor inclination to play set up. I document my travels to other countries period taking tons of photos. I post them because it takes people on the journey with me who may never have the opportunity to go to these places themselves. Now for you and Tom I totally understand your need and or desire to make this about east vs west. Its apparent you both need this to justify 800 pages of bashing west pilots posting photos, posting court records, calling pilots wives who are also employees foul names. I completely understand what you are doing. The issue that you have where I am concerned is that not a single photo was mentioned nor my FB until AFTER I got in Tom's $hit about his UNPROVOKED ATTACK OF ME ON THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!

Remember that 800 pages is one hell of a lot to overcome my brother!!!!
 
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