2015 Pilot Discussion.

[CactusPilot1]

 
 
Right over your head.  Your current lawsuit to force USAPA's to relinquish its $15M will by necessity include the question of USAPA's authority to retain it.  The rights and authority pursuant to MB will be front and center.
 
Isn't it time for the West to once again grieve the accuracy of the yearly seniority list?
 
Chop, chop.  

 
Wanna bet?
 
Scumbag thief.
 

 

[EastCheats]

Wanna bet?
 
Scumbag thief.

Fenix is such a smart guy. At least he thinks so. Just ask him.

Nevermind the details such as the PAB's order and the APA designated the West merger committee..

"APA designated a West Pilots Merger Committee that is working to protect the interests of the former America West pilots. Nevertheless, despite the PAB’s Order and APA’s designation of a West Pilots Merger Committee, USAPA continues to assert both in the SLI Arbitration and the North Carolina litigation that it represents the interests of the West pilots, in part because the West pilots continue as members of USAPA."

 

[Claxon]

The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript.  The Boards Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPAs President agree to an extension.  The Merger Policy provides, The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.  No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.    US AIRWAVES article; June/ July 2000. Todd Cardoza, Mike Cleary, Randy Mowery-US Air Merger Committee

First and foremost, plaintiffs cannot explain, nor do they try, how irreparable injury follows from this Courts finding that there is no injury at all. As this Court already determined, because no seniority term exists, because it has yet to be negotiated, there is no harm, hence the case is not ripe. Addington v. US Airline Pilots Assn, 606 F.3d 1174, at *10 (9th Cir. 2010) (We conclude that this case presents contingencies that could prevent effectuation of USAPA's proposal and the accompanying injury). And, in making the lack of injury determination, this Court necessarily rejected plaintiffs theory of their case that a failure to implement a predecessor unions proposal one even the former union was free to drop is somehow a violation of the duty of fair representation. Id. at *14, n.3 (USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor). Hence, under the law of this case, that bare possibility cannot constitute injury now, or ever. Second, plaintiffs admit that it is merely speculative (it might) that the imagined harm, a date of hire seniority term, is ever negotiated, ratified, and executed. Stays may be denied even with a showing of irreparable harm, but without such showing denial is required. Chrysler LLC, 129 S. Ct. 2275 (2009)

4




They claim that the Supreme Court would reverse because, this case will encourage other unions to refuse, in bad faith, to implement an arbitrated seniority integration (DktEntry 52 at 1-2), when this Court has already found the Nicolau arbitration was merely the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA. Addington, 606 F.3d 1174, at *15, n.3. But there is no arbitration that USAPA was ever a party to anywhere in this record. And the district court properly dismissed (and plaintiffs did not appeal) the removed state claim, which asserted the pilots themselves were a party. There not only is no federally mandated arbitration, there is no arbitration at all, merely a predecessor unions bargaining proposal.



Plaintiffs also claim that this Courts disposition would thwart important federal labor policy evidenced by the 2007 passage of the McCaskill-Bond bill(DktEntry 52 at 2).3 But there is no dispute, let alone any claim, that McCaskill is not applicable, nor could it be for several reasons, procedural as well assubstantive. Even if McCaskill were applicable, arbitration is not mandatory, rather, as plaintiffs concede, only utilized, if necessary. Plaintiffs McCaskill argument is a red-herring.


The former PHX rep is in water far over his head.......
He uses sources who were former ALPA personnel. Former PHX rep, your rebuttal of court findings, order, and statement please. Please refrain from sourcing USAIRWAYS ALPA MAGAZINE as law. Thank you.

 

[EastCheats]

The former PHX rep is in water far over his head.......

That sounds more like Jess how not impress the arbitrators.

Thanks for helping us get a seat at the table. 😉

 

[Claxon]

In the end, the Court cannot provide as much guidance as it had hoped it could. Pursuant to the Ninth Circuit’s decision, any claim for breach of the duty of fair representation will not be ripe until a collective bargaining agreement is finalized. Addington v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass’n, 606 F.3d 1174, 1181-82 (9th Cir. 2010). In this case, that means even though an integrated seniority regime is an incredibly important issue, and USAPA

Case 2:10-cv-01570-ROS Document 193 Filed 10/11/12 Page 8 of 9

appears totally committed to a particular seniority regime, it is not possible to determine the viability of any claim for breach of the duty of fair representation until a particular seniority regime is ratified. When the collective bargaining agreement is finalized, individuals will be able to determine whether USAPA’s abandonment of the Nicolau Award was permissible, i.e. supported by a legitimate union purpose. Thus, the best “declaratory judgment” the Court can offer is that USAPA’s seniority proposal does not automatically breach its duty of fair representation.3

This conclusion places US Airways in a difficult position. At the present time, it is not possible to predict what will result from the collective bargaining negotiations. Thus, the Court cannot grant US Airways prospective immunity from any legal action by the West Pilots. But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award. See Davenport v. Int’l Broth. of Teamsters, AFL-CIO, 166 F.3d 356, 361-62 (D.C. Cir. 1999) (addressing, without deciding, “the proper standard for determining whether an employer can be implicated in a union’s breach of duty”).

Case 2:10-cv-01570-ROS Document 193 Filed 10/11/12 Page 9 of 9

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.

DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Roslyn O. Silver

Senior United States District Judge

 

[Phoenix]

Wanna bet?
 
Scumbag thief.

It ain't costing me money.

AOL is betting they can get a court to order USAPA to relinquish funds without litigating USAPA's authority, rights, and responsibilities pursuant to MB (as well as the concomitant legal necessity to retain funds until those responsibilities are concluded--de jure)

Stupid bet.

 

[CactusPilot1]

It ain't costing me money.
AOL is betting they can get a court to order USAPA to relinquish funds without litigating USAPA's authority, rights, and responsibilities pursuant to MB (as well as the concomitant legal necessity to retain funds until those responsibilities are concluded--de jure)
Stupid bet.

USAPA has no authority, loser. Decertified. Obviously, you are too stupid to realize that minor detail.

Judge Silver got this part right. Nailed it.

vi. USAPAs Position is Unwise
USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory. As contemplated by the MOU,
in the very near future an election will take place and a new representative will be chosen by
all of the post-merger pilots.13 It is almost certain USAPA will lose that election. Once that
happens, USAPA will no longer be entitled to participate in the seniority integration
proceedings.14 The Court has no doubt thatas is USAPAs consistent practiceUSAPA will
change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.
That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should
participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it
will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be
allowed to participate. The Courts patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that
USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified
representative.

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA has no authority, loser. Decertified. Obviously, you are too stupid to realize that minor detail.
Judge Silver got this part right. Nailed it.....

You cannot deny Judge Silver's Court never had before it the question of MB responsibilities and authorities granted to bargaining agents in a merger. Never litigated.

However, AOL's lawsuit to take money from USAPA will necessarily litigate that question. If you are lucky it will be moot by the time it is answered. At any rate, AOL will never get a dime before that question is answered, and in the end it will never be answered to AOL's satisfaction.. regardless of how long they poor money into the bottomless hole.

 

[nevergiveup]

It ain't costing me money.
AOL is betting they can get a court to order USAPA to relinquish funds without litigating USAPA's authority, rights, and responsibilities pursuant to MB (as well as the concomitant legal necessity to retain funds until those responsibilities are concluded--de jure)
Stupid bet.

Any money refunded to the west will go straight to Marty.

 

[EastCheats]

It ain't costing me money.

AOL is betting they can get a court to order USAPA to relinquish funds without litigating USAPA's authority, rights, and responsibilities pursuant to MB (as well as the concomitant legal necessity to retain funds until those responsibilities are concluded--de jure)

Stupid bet.

 
Good Greif.
 
You sound like that whiner on the C&R's 

 

[EastCheats]

Any money refunded to the west will go straight to Marty.

 
He earned it. Good job, Marty 😉
 

 

[Phoenix]

Any money refunded to the west will go straight to Marty.

 
 
Any money returned to pilots (West Pilots only, and Trader) will go straight to Marty.   (Personally, I don't have any concern if USAPA burns through every penny by the time it is all over.)  

 

[cactusboy53]

Any money refunded to the west will go straight to Marty.

EXTREMELY well spent funds, my friend.  He has halted Date-of-Hire COMPLETELY.  He has managed to show the court system, the LUS management, and APA what a contemptable lot USAPA is built of.  He has managed to get the America West pilots a seat at the LUS/AA SLI table.  He and Freund will argue our case in front of a neutral arbitration panel (just like Freund did with the AWA/AAA SLI Arbitration), and give them a logical, salient argument on a fair integration.
 
You?  Well you deposited $10,000,000.00 in Lee Seham's account.  Then he left.  Then you got your current legal team that will serve you right up until the time you've run out of funds.  Epic FAIL.

 

[Phoenix]

 
Good Greif.
 
You sound like that whiner on the C&R's 

 
This is all just entertaining.
 
I predicted a long, long time ago after the merger announcement that the SLI would eventually go to arbitration and the end result will look a lot like UAL/CAL.  Its a no brainer.   By and large most people will accept the result as tolerable, and all but a few will realize it is indeed permanent at the very least.  A few charlatans will make profits by persuading the few dim bulbs to donate....  useless lawsuits, meet and greets, monthly donations, and ties.
 
The West will by far have spent the most out of pocket money and will have done nothing except play their role in what was inevitable anyway.... a fair SLI result that was decided by arbitrators while everyone danced around feeling self-important, but having no impact whatsoever.       

 

[CactusPilot1]

Any money returned to pilots (West Pilots only, and Trader) will go straight to Marty.   (Personally, I don't have any concern if USAPA burns through every penny by the time it is all over.)

Did you get the message, Usapascab? I'll bet loser central has a box full.


Steve Bradford and Jess Pauley,
This message is to advise you and USAPA that the only reason I remain as a member of
USAPA is to be certain that when USAPA dissolves as required by its Constitution and
distributes its remaining assets to its members, I will be treated as a member and will
receive my share of those assets. I do not remain a member of USAPA for the purpose of
having USAPA represent my interests in the upcoming seniority integration proceedings
with the American Airline pilots. So there is no misunderstanding, I want to state clearly
and unequivocally that USAPA does not represent my interests in that proceeding. Only
the West Pilots Merger Committee, appointed by APA at the direction of the Preliminary
Arbitration Board, represents my interests in that proceeding.