2015 Pilot Discussion.

[EastUS1]

 
Well, although my PBGC benefits pale in comparison to what I was "promised," at least I have PBGC benefits coming to me, in addition to SS and a handsome 401K.
 
What will you do with your PBGC?  Oh, that's right.....  
 
Working for America's Worst Airline earned you no pension at all, and you weak di*ks never had the cojones to get a pension in the first place.   That's why the westicles have always been, and continue to be, the laughing stock of the industry.  Big talk with no basis in reality (as proof, cross-reference all those incredibly stupid videos made over the years.)

 
 
Yep nyc...That's pretty much on the mark there on all counts, especially the "Big talk with no basis in realty" observation.

 

[EastUS1]

I hear that you had to use something called a phone booth in the 80's too.

 
Sigh...Kid; you missed out on a whole lot of good times the likes of which you clearly can't even imagine....but heck; if you think cell phones and texting herald the be-end-all pinnacle point of human experience, well...I'm sorry for you.

 

[EastUS1]

Your are flopping around, out of the water on shore, with your gills working overtime searching for water saturated 02.

 
That's an understandable result of a desert enviornment. Don't be so cruel there. 😉

 

[im back..!!]

Claxon, how's the fishing on Wye River? 😉

It hasn't been easy on any of us, you or me. Making things right never is, but rest assured that even if the arbs put west on top of east, yea I mean staple the east, you can't hurt us like the NIC would have in 2007.

So, revel on in your crusade, but know this. Even if you win, WE CANT LOSE......

It's called "no bump/no flush".... I'm in the seat now, arbs can't make me move for you... Company put that in to prevent massive training. So, you may get awarded a spot ahead of me, but you can't get there till someone retires. Then you would go in front of me, but I WILL STILL BE HERE.....

If the growth stagnates, which Some say may happen as the synergies are implemented, your looking at the east attrition for the west move into the seats ahead of east. Approx 200 retirements a year. So, look where you are on the angry f/o list and gauge when you will get that captains bid.... Start in spring of 2017 (implementation).....

 

[CAVOK]

 
Well, although my PBGC benefits pale in comparison to what I was "promised," at least I have PBGC benefits coming to me, in addition to SS and a handsome 401K.
 
What will you do with your PBGC?  Oh, that's right.....  
 
Working for America's Worst Airline earned you no pension at all, and you weak di*ks never had the cojones to get a pension in the first place.   That's why the westicles have always been, and continue to be, the laughing stock of the industry.  Big talk with no basis in reality (as proof, cross-reference all those incredibly stupid videos made over the years.)

To be fair, AWA had a mandatory stock purchase plan. I understand that America West employees were required to buy (a loan could be obtained but had to be paid back even if you left) 20% of their first year's pay into AWA stock in order to get hired. Then they had to buy 10% of their meager pay in AWA stock. (They had Dash 8s until the end of '92) Pilots also had to work on their days off as dispatchers.  
 
Unfortunately, the stock was all wiped out in their prolonged BK. 
 
http://www.awa-history.org/?q=about_awa/history
 
LUS pilots actually have the 401k, the DC, plus the PBGC. Since inception of the 401k and the DC, a pilot could have seven figures on those two alone (even as a conservative investor), without the PBGC. As with SS, the longer that you put off taking the PBGC benefits, the more the payout. Part of the reason that I stay is the increase, plus, I love my job. I miss it when I am not flying the Atlantic.

 

[EastUS1]

To be fair, AWA had a mandatory stock purchase plan. I understand that America West employees were required to buy (a loan could be obtained but had to be paid back even if you left) 20% of their first year's pay into AWA stock in order to get hired. Then they had to buy 10% of their meager pay in AWA stock. (They had Dash 8s until the end of '92) Pilots also had to work on their days off as dispatchers. 

 
Seriously? I honestly had no idea that was the case....Wow! How truly and hopelessly desperate would anyone have to be to ever sign up for THAT kind of insane BS? I'd thought indentured servitude had long been extinct in the USA. Small wonder that any testing for intelligence was nowhere a part of hiring screening, since the very terms of employment most certainly served the part of a de facto "intelligence" test all by themelf.

 

[im back..!!]

To be fair, AWA had a mandatory stock purchase plan. I understand that America West employees were required to buy (a loan could be obtained but had to be paid back if you left) 20% of their first year's pay into AWA stock in order to get hired. Then they had to buy 10% of their meager pay in AWA stock. (They had Dash 8s until the end of '92) Pilots also had to work on their days off as dispatchers.  
 
Unfortunately, the stock was all wiped out in their prolonged BK. 
 
http://www.awa-history.org/?q=about_awa/history
 


LUS pilots actually have the 401k, the DC, plus the PBGC. Since inception of the 401k and the DC, a pilot could have seven figures on those two alone, without the PBGC. The longer that you put off taking the PBGC benefits, the more the payout.

So, what your saying is, going to work at AWE was the fallback airline if you couldn't get on anywhere else..?

 

[EastUS1]

So, what your saying is, going to work at AWE was the fallback airline if you couldn't get on anywhere else..?

 
Based on CAVOK's just-provided info; if there's ANY other even conceivably possible spin to put on that....I'm certainly all ears...?

 

[EastUS1]

 Part of the reason that I stay is the increase, plus, I love my job. I miss it when I am not flying the Atlantic.

 
"I miss it when"...Understood and agreed sir. I'll miss the incredibly beautifull view from the office window and the true privelege and pleasure of working with the predominantly great people we get to share our days with aloft.  All the extraneous BS? Airport "security"/hotels/etc....Not-so-much. 😉

 

[CAVOK]

So, what your saying is, going to work at AWE was the fallback airline if you couldn't get on anywhere else

All I would say is that the only person that I knew professionally (he and I were in the Air Force) had a heart problem at an early age and went to AWA in the eighties or early nineties. No one else that I knew even considered AWA. It was like going to Peoples Express, and the union pilots HATED Peoples Express. If my last chance of flying for an airline was either of those two, I would have gone back to my college degree training, which would have been lucrative, rather than work for a non-union upstart such as those. 

 

[EastUS1]

All I would say is that the only person that I knew professionally (he and I were in the Air Force) had a heart problem at an early age and he went AWA in the eighties or early nineties. No one else that I knew even considered AWA. It was like going to Peoples Express, and the union pilots HATED Peoples Express. If my last chance of flying for an airline was either of those two, I would have gone back to my college degree training, which would have be lucrative, rather than work for a non-union upstart such as those. 

 
Agreed. From my own experience; one unfortunate fellow in my then reserve squadron was looking for a job fairly fresh off active duty in late '84. Although it was fast becoming the time when "everyone" was hiring; he didn't seem to either interview well, or who knows? He went to AWA for a very brief time before landing a job at an actual major airline, and we all just did our best to offer supportive "group hugs" and best wishes for hanging in 'till he got a real job the meanwhile, given that he wasn't a bad sort overall. It goes without saying that he bailed from AWA the very first moment possible....

 

[EastCheats]

Well, although my PBGC benefits pale in comparison to what I was "promised," at least I have PBGC benefits coming to me, in addition to SS and a handsome 401K.
 
What will you do with your PBGC?  Oh, that's right.....  
 
Working for America's Worst Airline earned you no pension at all, and you weak di*ks never had the cojones to get a pension in the first place.   That's why the westicles have always been, and continue to be, the laughing stock of the industry.  Big talk with no basis in reality (as proof, cross-reference all those incredibly stupid videos made over the years.)

That's quite the spin on the USAPA update and headlines. 😉

I have years to build on a retirement that's already over 6 figures at AA. Enjoy your PBGC or what's left of it.

USAPA v. PBGC: The Appeals Court for D.C. Federal Circuit recently handed down its decision in USAPA v. PBGC, No. 14-5181. This case was on appeal from an adverse ruling in the Federal District Court, No. 1:09-cv-01675. Unfortunately, the Appeals Court has ruled against USAPA on this issue. The decision may be found in the Recent Updates section of the Retirement and Benefits Committee Web page on alliedpilots.org. No decision has been made yet on further appeals


DC Circ. Told US Air Pilots Lost Millions From PBGC Inaction

By Michael Macagnone
Law360, Washington (April 14, 2015, 4:04 PM ET) -- A group of U.S. Airways pilots urged a D.C. Circuit panel Tuesday to reverse a judges verdict that the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. fulfilled its duties when taking over the failed pilots pension plan, saying PBGC should reimburse the plan for not pursuing lawsuits against former managers.
The pilots said the agency should have investigated the conduct of plan managers prior to the plans 2003 failure because decisions the plan managers made were actionable breaches of fiduciary duty. Bryan Killian, attorney for the U.S. Airline Pilots Association, cited PBGCs testimony from the plans bankruptcy case that called plan managers decisions unrealistic and unreasonable before the plans failure.

PBGC cant call out these practices in bankruptcy court then become the statutory trustee of the plan and not do an investigation, Killian said.

Killian said the plan was underfunded by more than $2 billion at the time of its failure, and it is unclear how much, if at all, the plan managers decisions contributed to the failure. He pointed to two shortcomings in managers assumptions: All pilots would retire at 60, and the plan would earn a 9.5 percent annual return.

PBGC knew of those decisions and criticized them in the 2003 bankruptcy case, and did not investigate whether they were actionable claims, Killian said. He said the agency has a statutory duty as the trustee of the plan to undertake those investigations, and should now compensate the plan for its failure.

When a reasonable person who identifies conduct like that which can provide damage to them, they have the duty to investigate, he said.

Killian asked the panel to reverse a decision by D.C. District Judge Frederick J. Scullin Jr. that held the agency had not breached its fiduciary duty, and a report from its auditor met legal requirements.

PBGC attorney Paula Connelly said the panel should affirm Judge Scullins decision, saying there was a distinct difference between representing their client in bankruptcy court and finding collectible causes of action to include in a funds balance sheet.

PBGC never suggested there was an actionable fiduciary breach or that an actuary was professionally liable, she said.

The matter should be considered moot, she said, as any lawsuit that could have arisen from the takeover ran its statute of limitations at least six years ago, and no recovery was likely to be more than an existing $500 million liability for currently guaranteed benefits.

Further, the agency should not be subject to this kind of action, Connelly said, as it should have discretion over its investigatory powers, separate from a fiduciary duty to the plan.

There is not a way to parse out [the responsibilities] and label them as USAPA tries to do, she said.

D.C. Circuit Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh had a problem with that position, questioning how PBGC could parse that with a duty by statute to administer the plan.

This seems to be the government in a different area than a traditional law enforcement role with prosecutorial discretion, Judge Kavanaugh said.

The USAPA filed the suit in 2009 in D.C. District court, alleging that the agency, in managing the plan after the takeover, failed to investigate properly the conduct of its predecessor. Judge Scullin ruled against the pilots in 2013, and they launched the instant appeal.

D.C. Circuit Judges Thomas B.Griffith, A. Raymond Randolph and Brett M. Kavanaugh sat on the panel.

USAPA is represented by David Judah Butler and Bryan Killian of Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP.

PGBC is represented by in-house counsel Paula J. Connelly and Garth David Wilson and Andrew C. Bernasconi of Reed Smith LLP.

The case is US Airline Pilots Association v. PBGC, case number is 14-5181, in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

--Editing by Rebecca Flanagan.

 

[EastUS1]

I have years to build on a retirement that's already over 6 figures at AA. Enjoy your PBGC or what's left of it.

 
 
Sigh!...Child?....You, nor anyone can EVER have ANY idea what the future holds. The very last thing any of us were thinking on August 1st 1990 was that we'd be over in the Sandbox preparing for war within a few weeks. Nobody woke up in the early morning of 9-11 with even the slightest nightmare vision of what was to shortly happen. Nobody walks into a doctor's office with the expectation of a cancer diagnosis. Heck; for all "you'se" know you'll be hit by a bus while just walking around with your oblvious head predictably stuck up your arse and thus possibly improve the human gene pool a bit.

 

[EastCheats]

I have years to build on a retirement that's already over 6 figures at AA. Enjoy your PBGC or what's left of it.

Yup 😉

 

[EastCheats]

Morning Eastus, what's in your wallet?