2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor ([/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]clue: IT WASN'T[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]), ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010[/SIZE]

 

[luvthe9]

Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldn’t get to first base with it.

Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything…..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.

U-Turn



One smart guy, you should have listened.

 

[luvthe9]

our MEC ended up getting 175 West pilots furloughed, because they refused to negotiate and THEY TURNED DOWN THE OFFER!

From what we’ve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MEC’s refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave O’Dell from being furloughed. You turned it down.


So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume’, just remember who didn’t “SAVE DAVE.”

 

[luvthe9]

First off, as to the stagnation of growth for America West pilots since the merger what I will tell you is, and this is a hard thing to communicate to people but I believe it with all my heart, that if we didn’t do the merger with US Airways you’d be in a lot worse position. And frankly I think as a 3-year FO, you wouldn’t have a job. We would have gone through a bankruptcy filing. We would have downsized. We had an airline at America West that had 20% lower unit revenues than US Airways and now has the same unit cost. That airline could not survive.

 

[cactusboy53]

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby

You lose.

 
[SIZE=12pt]From a letter sent by Doug Parker:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“We have determined that the list submitted meets these criteria, so the company will accept the submitted list.”[/SIZE]
 
I'm not sure how the arbitration panel will rule on the three SLI proposals, BUT that list you claim is dead is still THE ONLY LIST for the LUS pilots that has been recognized. 
 
I won't say "you lose", but I will say that "the fat lady" hasn't started singing (yet). 
 
Here's an oldie, but a goodie:
 
[SIZE=12pt]From “A Conversation with an Attorney” - between Bradford &  Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan, a labor law firm (Chris Katzenbach point):  “Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud.” [/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]This in response to Bradford saying the following:  “I next specifically asked him about the formation of a new bargaining agent as an avenue of advance to get around this award…”[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldn’t get to first base with it.

Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything…..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.

U-Turn

One smart guy, you should have listened.

A tainted NIC was NOT yours to offer, AND it was NOT our MEC's to bargain/negotiate away.   
 
BTW, U-Turn is really NOT what I would call quality reporting.  Further, it's long been out of commission.  You keep quoting our CEO, this old defunct nonsense, but you DO REALIZE that what ever this arbitration panel delivers....you're going to swallow it.  Period. 
 
Don't forget that, Luvr. 

 

[cactusboy53]

First off, as to the stagnation of growth for America West pilots since the merger what I will tell you is, and this is a hard thing to communicate to people but I believe it with all my heart, that if we didn’t do the merger with US Airways you’d be in a lot worse position. And frankly I think as a 3-year FO, you wouldn’t have a job. We would have gone through a bankruptcy filing. We would have downsized. We had an airline at America West that had 20% lower unit revenues than US Airways and now has the same unit cost. That airline could not survive.

Blah, blah, blah.    Sheer desperation.  Are you like the "Bagdad Bob" for Stevie?  Hey, WYE don't you gin up those old videos and then start in on the U-Turn crap again?

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]From the USAPA NAC Update (March/April 2012), authored by Paul DiOrio &  Dean Colello:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“During negotiations you have heard references to an ‘Industry Standard’ contract and the ‘Kirby’ proposal.  USAPA has always defined ‘Industry Standard’ as any recently negotiated, non 9/11, non-bankruptcy era contract. Of course we are only referring to contracts negotiated at major carriers. As of today these airlines include Southwest, Delta, JetBlue and Alaska, however we continue to update the standard as new contracts are negotiated. The Kirby proposal is the company comprehensive proposal that has remained unchanged since May 2007.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]From the Contract Education Campaign (13Sep2010), authored by Paul DiOrio & Dean Colello:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Look at the data on vacation and retirement, and see for yourself if the “Kirby” proposal is something you'd be willing to live with. [/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT: BYBEE, Circuit Judge, dissenting:[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]Here, the absence of a CBA is itself powerful evidence of a DFR violation. As set forth quite fairly in the majority opinion and in a lengthy and careful opinion by the district court, the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”) was decertified and a new union, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”), certified precisely to frustrate implementation of the Nicolau Agreement and to negotiate a CBA with U.S. Airways that favors the East Pilots. As the district court found, “USAPA’s sole objective in adopting and presenting its seniority proposal to the Airline was to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots, rather than to benefit the bargaining union as a whole.” Thus, “the terms of USAPA’s seniority proposal are substantially less favorable to West Pilots than the Nicolau Award” made through binding arbitration, an award that “USAPA concedes that it will never bargain for.”[/SIZE]

 

[Phoenix]

Let's all look out the back window while the car drives off the cliff.   Everyone straighten your Liberty Tie.  Gotta look good!  

 

[luvthe9]

"Once again, U-Turn warned you"..............how many times were you little AFO's warned?






Once again, U-Turn warned you. Guys, the AWAPPA leaders are the same ones who messed up when they were in office. It’s time to stop listening to them. It may be too late now, but if you don’t get your heads out of your sand and file grievances with the union that we’re stuck with, how are they going to know where we are coming from and what we demand? Just a reminder, with the ATA/AWA agreement (which was approved by the company) we had 18 months after the joint contract and single carrier which ever took longer. Delta received furlough protection for 24 months after everything is done.

Dave Blomgren, for the Mighty U-Turn





It’s time to take a good look in the rear-view mirror. If we had a single contract in place, the NIC would also be in place. Sure, we would probably still have USAPA. But long before the East removed ALPA, we would have been operating under a single contract, with the Nicolau seniority list in place. Next time you go to a training center brown bag lunch, before you go after the company and the East, keep in mind how close we were to a TA prior to the NIC. We did it to ourselves, guys.

Dave Blomgren, for the U-Turn



"We did this to ourselves, guys"........... You blew it Simmons, big time.

 

[luvthe9]

Blah, blah, blah.    Sheer desperation.  Are you like the "Bagdad Bob" for Stevie?  Hey, WYE don't you gin up those old videos and then start in on the U-Turn crap again?

To bad you were to stupid to listen to Dave, stay locked in PHX for years, we seem to have IT issues.




No desperation here Davey boy, YOUR own pilot group warned you, all is well out east and is going to stay that way.

 

[luvthe9]

"Phoenix will be shrunk to serve 50 or so cities at max....it is a low-yielding hub...With a more bloated structure, the airline will be unable to support the same level of nonstops...PHX hub..."

 

[luvthe9]

Don't worry little Dave you will fall into place right where a 15 yr F/O should be.........fair and equitable........right?



It's to bad AWA was the only airline that would hire you, guess they were desperate.

 

[dariencc]

Reading this thread is like watching the Washington Generals going up against the Globetrotters. And guess what, Dave? You're the Generals.