2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Phoenix]

It sounds like the same advice you got that caused you to lose your case and get 10h put on it's head. Too bad it's well over your head due to your inexperience concerning these matters. You are like most hard core USAPA supporters, you don't ask the tough questions of your lawyers or don't know the questions to ask.
 
Oh, one other thing. Have a happy 4th of July. Not to worry, this problem you have will not take a holiday.

"Advice?"

You are seeing things again. No advice offered. There is no injunction on anyone to ever affirm or use the Nic, ever. That is an obvious fact.. It is by definition the antithesis of "final and binding". It is the antithesis of a resolution to the dispute.

It is rhetorical, at best. It gives bumbling a good name.

 

[CactusPilot1]

The third listers views are from a Captain seat or a 330 seat, with a few more years of attrition. 
 
Whats in your bid?  Sitting reserve f/o for 10years has to be tough on you.

What's keeping you from being qualified on the 330 and having to rely on vacation lawsuits to make a living?

 

[FWAAA]

If Judge Silver enters any order for the East pilots to use the nic, it will go against what the 9th foot note highlighted and be appealed, there is not an injunction that the nic has to be used.

I'm curious - why do you think there's any chance that Judge Silver would not obey the 9th Circuit's order?

The holding of the case couldn't be more clear:

Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award.

I'm not familiar with Judge Silver. Does Judge Silver have a history of being an idiot? Only an idiot would fail to impose the precise injunction that the 9th Cir has commanded.

That doesn't conclusively establish that the NIC list will be used, but it does mean that nobody will there banging a drum for DOH.

 

[Claxon]

I'm curious - why do you think there's any chance that Judge Silver would not obey the 9th Circuit's order?

The holding of the case couldn't be more clear:


I'm not familiar with Judge Silver. Does Judge Silver have a history of being an idiot? Only an idiot would fail to impose the precise injunction that the 9th Cir has commanded.

That doesn't conclusively establish that the NIC list will be used, but it does mean that nobody will there banging a drum for DOH.

I agreed with Judge Silver's ruling on the DFR, she is a smart Judge.
 
Judge Silver will follow the 9th in that USAPA, who previously represented legally both west and East, has to advocate for the nic and rule on attorney fees for the west.  No more USAPA now.
 
This is were the Judicial and Legislative branches each have a say.  MB will take over.  USAPA due to the ruling had to remove themselves from the SLI integration so the East pilots will have their own merger committee now for a fair and equitable result.
 
The protocol agreement was for 3 seniority lists, 3 merger committees.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I agreed with Judge Silver's ruling on the DFR, she is a smart Judge.
 
Judge Silver will follow the 9th in that USAPA, who previously represented legally both west and East, has to advocate for the nic and rule on attorney fees for the west.  No more USAPA now.
 
This is were the Judicial and Legislative branches each have a say.  MB will take over.  USAPA due to the ruling had to remove themselves from the SLI integration so the East pilots will have their own merger committee now for a fair and equitable result.
 
The protocol agreement was for 3 seniority lists, 3 merger committees.

 
Wrong.
 
 2 lists, one being the Nic.
 
Before you fly to MIA and join Luv's "friends" and have an expensive dinner. Nevermind, I don't think that anybody on the AAPSIC is stupid enough to go along with a seniority scheme to get around a court order.
 

 

[CactusPilot1]

Does USAPA LLC have plans to come back to the table or is it going to continue the pity party?

 

[Claxon]

 
Wrong.
 
 2 lists, one being the Nic.
 
Before you fly to MIA and join Luv's "friends" and have an expensive dinner. Nevermind, I don't think that anybody on the AAPSIC is stupid enough to go along with a seniority scheme to get around a court order.
 

APA our legal bargaining agent insisted that the west pilots have their own committee, even though Judge Silver ruled that it was not required.  Now that USAPA is gone, APA our legal union reps now, would have a DFR on their hands if they did not offer the same to the East Pilots.  Relax this is going to take many years to settle.

 

[Claxon]

Does USAPA LLC have plans to come back to the table or is it going to continue the pity party?

USAPA withdrew due to the facts that the 9th court ruling would not allow them to advocate for the best interest of the west and East pilots. 

 

[CactusPilot1]

USAPA withdrew due to the facts that the 9th court ruling would not allow them to advocate for the best interest of the west and East pilots. 

You are a fool and anybody who is in on any of your schemes is even more foolish. After seeing how ALPA and Prater got played by your side, nothing surprises me.
 
 

 

[nic4us]

"Advice?"

You are seeing things again. No advice offered. There is no injunction on anyone to ever affirm or use the Nic, ever. That is an obvious fact.. It is by definition the antithesis of "final and binding". It is the antithesis of a resolution to the dispute.

It is rhetorical, at best. It gives bumbling a good name.

 
Who needs an injunction?
 
Does the protocol agreement not say there can be no re-ordering of the respective lists?
 
Therefore, the Nic being the only system seniority list at LUS, it cannot be re-ordered by the arbitrators.  Just as the APA's list will not be re-ordered.
 
My prediction.  The arbitration board will plead to the usapa merger committee to return.  If the usapa committee declines, too bad so sad, and we move on without them.  The east is fully represented by the committee that withdrew on Monday, and it is their right to withdraw, however, their self hostage taking infantile antics are not grounds to delay the process this time.
 
In other words.  Show up and represent the east, or represent the east by not showing up...we no longer care, you have your McCaskill-Bond representation.

 

[nic4us]

USAPA withdrew due to the facts that the 9th court ruling would not allow them to advocate for the best interest of the west and East pilots. 

 
usapa withdrew as a tactic to represent the east.  
 
You have your representation.  Now the process can move forward.

 

[snapthis]

 
usapa withdrew as a tactic to represent the east.  
 
You have your representation.  Now the process can move forward.

 
The process will move along. We can give them a timeline:
 
It's 14 days from the date of the 9th's Opinion for usapa to file a Petition with the 9th. We will only write a response if so Ordered by the Court to do so. The Court will usually give 21 days for the response, but the attorneys likely won't take that long. The Petition will be reviewed by the original three, Judge Graber, Bybee and Tashima. They will each grant or deny the Reconsideration. It will then be reviewed by other members of the 9th. In Addington I (June 2010 9th Circuit Opinion), it stated in the original denial Order that the "Full Court" reviewed the Petition ("The full court has been advised of the petition for rehearing en banc and no judge of the court has requested a vote on en banc rehearing. See Fed. R. App. P. 35(f).") The 9th's Opinion in Addington I issued on June 4, 2010, and the Rehearing was denied on July 8, 2010, a total of 32 days. Statistically usapa has about a one percent chance of reconsideration or rehearing, and the criteria is really stringent for either one to happen. As our attorneys (both Jeff Freund and Marty Harper) have always acted responsibly in their risk assessments, they will not claim its completely impossible for usapa to gain further review. So in other words, no parade for now.

If denied by the 9th, it's on to the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) as usapa has vowed to do. Like June 2010, the 9th's Opinion in Addington III comes late in SCOTUS's current session that finished at the end of June, and the Court is in recess until the first Monday of October (they are busy all summer though preparing for the fall session). Usapa will most likely file their Writ sometime within the month of October, and I do not anticipate that our side would file for any delays. Once the Writ is filed, if there are no requests for extensions, the Writ will be scheduled for one of the many "conferences" for review. I'm guessing by January, but not sure at the moment. I will provide a more precise timeline when we get closer to their filing. In any event, we will know whether it is accepted or denied by the end of March 2016 the latest.

Having a Writ heard by SCOTUS is a statistical long shot. In the last session that ran from October 2014 to June 2015, 68 Writs were heard out of over 8000 filed.
 
That's a lot of hoops so they would like to take a short-cut rather than go through a process. A shortcut to more trouble.

 

[EastCheats]

WHEREAS: On June 29th 2015, USAPAs President sent a letter to the McCaskill-Bond Seniority List Integration Arbitration Panel disavowing the position of the USAPA Merger Committee Counsel, and

WHEREAS: The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives has met and through deliberation decided that the original letter submitted by Merger Counsel was the proper position taken considering all of the issues and potential ramifications,

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: The USAPA BPR instructs the USAPA President to withdrawal the letter he sent on June 29th 2015 to the McCaskill-Bond Seniority List Integration Arbitration Panel,

Wtf??

Who writes this stuff? Better yet, who's on first?

View attachment 10931

 

[snapthis]

It looks like they have the right people running the show.

 

[Res Judicata]

You East idiots are getting stapled. Right where you Aholes belong...