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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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luvthe9 said:
Another swing and a miss.




Sure seems if your reps listened to Freund you would have had the NIC,.......wake up son!



Next..............
 
Listen up there junior. I will try to explain it one more time.
 
Our reps did listen to Freund, and we do have the Nic. 
 
It just absolutely befuddles you that the West refused to kowtow to demands from a group of idiots who had no ground to make demands.  We totally understood that you could go sit on your side of the separate ops fence, and we knew that since you made completely crappy wages on draconian work rules, that the company would slide anything in excess of the TA min rules your way.  
 
What we did not realize was that you could be so stupid to think the company would also give in to your arrogant demands while you were at the same time working on LOA93.  Seriously, you told the company you were willing to scab, then turned around and told the company you demand an "industry leading contract".  You clowns are beyond ignorant.
 
I say we see what the three merger committees come up with in Sept.
 
I am guessing at least 2 of the 3 will come with the Nic, and the 3rd will eventually be told to change their position to Nic before they walk out.
 
Phoenix said:
28pjpv.png

 
8.27671232 years ago
 
Ah!  A "count UP" clock!   Nice change of pace for this thread!
 
nic4us said:
Listen up there junior. I will try to explain it one more time.
 
Our reps did listen to Freund, and we do have the Nic. 
 
It just absolutely befuddles you that the West refused to kowtow to demands from a group of idiots who had no ground to make demands.  We totally understood that you could go sit on your side of the separate ops fence, and we knew that since you made completely crappy wages on draconian work rules, that the company would slide anything in excess of the TA min rules your way.  
 
What we did not realize was that you could be so stupid to think the company would also give in to your arrogant demands while you were at the same time working on LOA93.  Seriously, you told the company you were willing to scab, then turned around and told the company you demand an "industry leading contract".  You clowns are beyond ignorant.
 
I say we see what the three merger committees come up with in Sept.
 
I am guessing at least 2 of the 3 will come with the Nic, and the 3rd will eventually be told to change their position to Nic before they walk out.
Now calm down skippy your hallucinating there is no NIC, you are in denial.


Out east 34 years is junior...........you go on and keep guessing that's what you do best.



Maybe you should go read the fishbowl letter again..... Talk about begging




E for effort





Hey how did you make out on that last bid? Think we have a 9 month capt. now....,.. You guys gave up so much money in legal fees and upward movement that you will never recoup......what a dumb group you are.
 
"Subject: Phoenix to lose it's work rules, and left to suffocate in the fishbowl"



For the past 16 months, everything U-Turn has put out has been attacked and ridiculed by our MEC, their suck-up supporters and many rank and file members. We were called fools, traitors, idiots and worse. We were accused of capitulating to the East and even supporting them. We were accused of crying wolf for our scenarios which could never happen. We were accused of being agents of USAPA.

But with this evenings MEC Hotline written by Chairman John McIlvenna, the truth is now finally coming to light. And all we can say is: we told you so!]
From the October 20 MEC Hotline:





All we at U-Turn can say is: WE TOLD YOU SO!







Coming out of U-Turn retirement for one last blast: Herb Holland, for THE MIGHTY U-TURN!







These guys were right all along and you did not listen
 
nic4us said:
 
Listen up there junior. I will try to explain it one more time.
 
Our reps did listen to Freund, and we do have the Nic. 
 
It just absolutely befuddles you that the West refused to kowtow to demands from a group of idiots who had no ground to make demands.  We totally understood that you could go sit on your side of the separate ops fence, and we knew that since you made completely crappy wages on draconian work rules, that the company would slide anything in excess of the TA min rules your way.  
 
What we did not realize was that you could be so stupid to think the company would also give in to your arrogant demands while you were at the same time working on LOA93.  Seriously, you told the company you were willing to scab, then turned around and told the company you demand an "industry leading contract".  You clowns are beyond ignorant.
 
I say we see what the three merger committees come up with in Sept.
 
I am guessing at least 2 of the 3 will come with the Nic, and the 3rd will eventually be told to change their position to Nic before they walk out.
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2014%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/Pilots/Average%20Annual%20Wages%20and%20Salaries%20-%20PILOT%20AND%20CO-PILOT%20PERSONNEL.htm
 
 
January 4th, 2006
 
Ladies and Gentlemen of Council #41, Thank you for your nomination and election as your Interim Captain Rep last Thursday at our meeting at the Lagoon. The numbers were very small and disappointing to me and I want you to know that I consider it no mandate. I will need all of your help in representing you as you feel you deserve and leading in the direction you feel is appropriate for the situation. Please do not hesitate to contact me on any matter moving forwar d. My last communication to you has been pointed out to have a cut and copy error in it as the Resolution #153B: ALPA's resolution to think about actions concerning the Hemmenway Letter was copied twice. In order to reduce the confusion here they both are again. The one I characterized as from a Rep. who has no intention of doing anything is Resolution #153A. By the way this characterization was made before this rep. actually voted against his own resolution! Agenda item _153a___ Title: Contract Negotiations Mover: Swiatkowski/
 
WHEREAS Gerrold Glass has presented the JNC with a letter from Mr. Hemmenway dated _________, which in effect neuters any prospective post-bankruptcy gains to any combined merged pilot agreement, and
 
WHEREAS, in said letter, the company declares that closed sections are not really closed if the Association presents other sections that affect the economic impact of the com pleted agreement, and WHEREAS, in said letter, the company reserves a right to impose the US Airways CBA if it deems a new agreement is not reached in a timely manner, or absent the same cost structure as the US Airways CBA, and
 
WHEREAS, the US Airways pilots expect that their enormous sacrifices, which saved the company during bankruptcy, would be rewarded and partially restored in a post-bankruptcy environment, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the MEC withdraws its JNC members from further meetings with the company and terminate any further discussions until such time
as said letter is retracted,
and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the MEC clearly express and management acknowledge expectations of increased returns in the combined agreement, for any negotiations to resume. BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that the America West MEC shall be encouraged to endorse an equivalent resolution from their pilots. THE MOVER / AUTHOR VOTED AGAINST HIS OWN RESOLUTION! The Resolution which passed was offered by ALPA National, authored by Bruce York, is Resolution #153B This is the second resolution from ALPA National which has every intention of doing nothing! AI 05-153b Contract Negotiations Motion: Swiatkowski/Svendsen
 
WHEREAS the Company wrote ALPA on November 15, 2005 after completion of Transition Agreement negotiations regarding the future negotiation of a single collective bargaining agreement applicable to the merged operations of America West and US Airways (the “Single Agreement”), and
 
WHEREAS that letter, among other things, suggests that “closed sections” of the Single Agreement could be reopened and discussed again based on the economic impact of other completed sections, and
 
WHEREAS that letter among other things, seeks to reserve rights to apply the US Airways collective barga ining agreement to the merged operation, and WHEREAS management’s suggestion to reopen contract sections is not consistent with efficient and good faith negotiations, and WHEREAS the Company’s supposed reservation of rights is inconsistent with the language, meaning and bargaining history of the Transition Agreement, and
 
WHEREAS the Company’s attempt to reserve rights never discussed in Transition Agreement negotiations, despite many opportunities to do so, is contrary to Mr. Parker’s often expressed desire to deal openly, fairly and in good faith with employees of the new company, and
 
WHEREAS ALPA has rejected the Company’s positions in a letter dated November 17, 2005, and WHEREAS despite ALPA requests to do so, the Company has not yet retracted its reservation of rights, and
 
WHEREAS US Airways pilots expect that their enormous sacrifices will be acknowledged and rewarded during the post-bankruptcy enviro nment, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC directs legal counsel to prepare for discussion of alternatives and a joint decision of the MEC’s to resolve this issue in a manner satisfactory to both US Airways and America West pilots at the January MEC meeting, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the MEC clearly express its expectation for quick resolution of these issues and its expectation for substantial improvements in pay, benefits and working conditions in the combined agreement to Mr. Parker. BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that a pending resolution MEC AI 05-153a be provided to the America West MEC in preparation for action at the January 2006 joint discussion MEC meeting. I am sorry for the confusion. We will now be discussing Resolution 153B in Dallas with the America West Pilots. And, By the way if you think your MEC Chairman is on top of the situation created by Mr. Hemmenwy's letter of November 15th you're w rong! The first correspondence to Mr. Hemmenway from the Chairman the MEC has been copied so far is one asking Hemmenway's permission to carry out a MEC resolution. Honest! You see the MEC wants to show the pilots, through the negotiating notes of 2004, just how well they met the company's needs for pay and working conditions relative to the other low cost carriers. Your Chairman is begging the question asking if much of the data is still confidential. The time for that debate was before the MEC passed the resolution. We have had the debate on the above Resolutions 153A & B. ALPA National got its way. We will now move ahead with their watered down course of action. Hopefully there will be no more letters from our Chairman to Mr. Hemmenway asking for permission to yank the JNC should ALPA ever get the stomach for it. Recent problems we are having with our chairman have to do with his
inability to communicate to the MEC matters of importance to the US Airways pilots. The first involves his knowledge ahead of time of the company's intention to fly America West flights with our aircraft and crewmembers. Your reps and our crewmembers had to find out about the company's plans at the time of implementation. There was no time for a thought out response or even a well thought out legal opinion from the drafter on our side of the Transition Agreement. Even some of the MEC members were unaware of the situation which occurred last week in Phoenix when our (PHL) pilots were told to fly extra sections in lieu of America West flights because of a shortage of flyable aircraft on their side of the equation. It is not OK with this rep that we do America West flying. If the Transition Agreement ultimately allows such whipsawing, someone did a poor job of crafting the language...we shall see. The story to date is that everyone will be paid, but we all know that wi ll not be actualized until the fifteenth. We will keep you posted. If you are asked to do anything that you think is suspect get in touch with the ALPA office, Dave, or myself ASAP. Bottom Line.......OUR CHAIRMAN KNEW, HE LET US ALL BE SURPRISED AND BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD. The Second Issue involves a little junket to Portugal by Chairman Pollock and Vice Chairman Snider. They knew they were going. No report. They knew they were there, no report. They knew they had been there, no report. When questioned about the trip your Chairman responded to Dave Ciabattoni, "Well Dave we stayed at a Holiday Inn which was 79EU/night and the food was expensive." When your Vice Chairman was queried about the trip in subcommittee while he was giving his quarterly report he told how important it was for them (he and Bill) to keep up on matters concerning global threats to our profession and to those relating to our alliances. He was unable, however to report to us about what he learned about either or how exactly either of them had been promoting the agenda of the US Airways pilots. Stay tuned. We will report from our Joint MEC meeting in Texas--neutral ground, you know, this week. Rumor has it that if the America West pilots have any surprises for Pollock, your Chairman will walk out. Hopefully that will not include an attempt on their part to resurrect Resolution #153A and the honor of its author!
 
 
Resolution that pulls the JNC and reassigns them to negotiating committee duties until Retroactive
Pay parity (back to September 1, 2007). This resolution states that there will be no JNC
negotiations before this retroactive pay parity is provided to the pilots.
08-15-07
Ciabattoni_Rowe Resolution
WHEREAS this September will mark two years since the merger between US Airways and America
West Airlines, and
WHEREAS US Airways management has benefited from scope relief granted by the US Airways pilots
allowing the use of the US Airways marketing identity on America West flights for nearly two years, and
WHEREAS there has been little substantial economic progress made during Joint Negotiations for both
pilot groups, and
WHEREAS there has been a disparity of pay between the pilot groups since the onset of the US Airways
and America West merger, and
WHEREAS this disparity between the two pilot groups has increased due to the recalling of US Airways
furloughed pilots that are not at top of scale, and
WHEREAS the America West Pilots received the support of the US Airways pilots in dealings with
management that culminated in the America West pilots successfully achieving substantial gains in the
areas of Defined Contribution Retirement Plan and Corporate Profit Sharing Plan, and
WHEREAS since the US Airways and America West Merger, management has seen fit to grant other
employees pay and parity raises throughout the corporation, and
Page 5 of 8
1/22/2008
WHEREAS US Airways management continues to reward themselves with lucrative compensation
packages, and
WHEREAS the profits are reported separately for US Airways and America West by the company, and
they indicate an extreme disproportionate profit generated from the East operation resulting in East
profits disportionately funding items such as West profit sharing plans, other employee raises and
executive compensation packages and
WHEREAS the Transition Agreement envisioned substantial progress being made by June of 2006, and
WHEREAS Management has intentionally manipulated the timeline and slowed the progress of the JNC
process, in particular during it's ill conceived hostile takeover attempt of Delta Airlines, and
WHEREAS during that failed Delta Airline Takeover attempt, management clearly promised that all
pilots would be brought up to the highest contract of the three pilot groups, and
WHEREAS CEO Doug Parker on July 26, 2007 during the 2nd Quarter Report publicly stated that US
Airways has already budgeted 122 million dollars for 2007 and beyond for the assumed cost of matching
US Airways pilots pay with America West pilot pay plus an additional three percent, and
WHEREAS also during this same public forum CEO Doug Parker declared that employees performing
the same work should be paid at the same level of pay, and
WHEREAS the expense of continued fruitless negotiation is not in the best interest of the US Airways
East pilots.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the AAA MEC immediately reassign our members of the JNC
back to Negotiating Committee duties, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that our members of the JNC will not reengage in Joint Contract
Negotiations until the US Airways Pilots are provided parity with our Brother and Sister pilots at
America West, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that parity is defined as pay as put forth to the company in our June 28th
proposal, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED That retro pay for all US Airways pilots will take affect starting
September 1, 2007, including a fair interest charge of 8% that will be calculated onto any future
agreements, and
THEREFORE BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC authorizes a media campaign,
including but not limited to informational picketing and other forms of lawful demonstrations, in order to
inform the traveling public of the un-American pay discrimination that the professional union pilots at US
Airways have been enduring for the last two years.
Page 6 of 8
1/22/2008
Passes unanimous
 
nic4us said:
 
Please explain how I as an AWA pilot making far more money on much better work rules than the east LCC pilot for an entire decade equates to my whole life history at AWA.  On second thought, please do not explain, cause I will not bother reading anyway.
 
 
Actually, you did not make more money than me and you did not have better working conditions. Flying to Europe was not so bad for those years and when I retire I will have an income of $4,000 a month that the AWA pilots will never see. Not as much as promised, but I can thank ALPA for that. We also had both a 401k plus a DC retirement during those years. You can easily have a seven figure Fidelity account since the DC and 401k inception.  
 
Over my career, my earnings have been much better than an AWA pilot especially with the five year upgrade program. In my sixth year of employment I made more than an AWA pilot has ever made and that was in 1980s $s. I never lost the stock in BK that AWA pilots were forced to buy as a condition of employment and the 330 pays handsomely now. I am guessing that you were either grossly misinformed by AOL or are willfully ignorant. 
 
Even the F/Os that were stagnant during and prior to the years of LOA 93 are making much more as captains due to East attrition with the current pay rates plus their PBGC. Don't worry about the East. We are doing just fine. 
 
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