2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

There were other sections of the contract, but a TA would never have been reached without resolving Section 22. It took them eight years, but the 9th finally came back and affirmed management's understanding that using any other seniority list besides the NIC for the CBA would have created a substantial legal liability for them for culluding with USAPA to violate their DFR to all pilots. Management filed the DJ specifically to get an answer to the question if they could or could not negotiate with USAPA if the latter did not advocate for the NIC. Had that answer have come in any actionalble way, negotiations could have restarted. Even the NMB board concluded that negotiations were futile and meaningless until a federal court resolved the untenable position USAPA put everyone one in (and the 9th and Silver added to by not answering the question of a fully ripe DFR claim). USAPA is 100% responsible for stalled and parked negotiations, and of course for a federal injuntion for an illegal job action.

AOL is 100% responsible for the dilemma we have now.............fishbowl anyone.

 

[EastUS1]

Fishbowls are great by the way.

 
For some, I suppose. I prefer the open ocean myself.

 

[Claxon]

When will Snapthis/ Eastcheats/Cactuspilot 1 return? Remove one, all three disappear.

 

[Claxon]

AOL is 100% responsible for dilemma we have now.............fishbowl anyone.

 

[CallawayGolf]

AOL is 100% responsible for dilemma we have now.............fishbowl anyone.

The East formed USAPA because they felt their presumed rights were not being protected under ALPA. The west formed AOL because they felt their presumed rights were not being protected under USAPA. Both groups took actions to protect their rights. One has been proven to be wrong concering their quest to jetison an arbitrated list and one was correct that the requirment to use the NIC transfered from the former CBA to the new, as recently affirmed by the 9th. Other than USAPA being proven wrong and AOL being proven correct, what's the difference? 

 

[Claxon]

http://youtu.be/63MHwyhzpnM

Eric Ferguson narrates the PHX update.....
The fishbowl is having problems.....

 

[EastUS1]

 
Ah!  A "count UP" clock!   Nice change of pace for this thread!

 
One must reasonably assume that all their "T-minus" countdown clocks shorted-out long ago...or perhaps it was just an issue of battery life over the last 8 years? 😉

 

[luvthe9]

The East formed USAPA because they felt their presumed rights were not being protected under ALPA. The west formed AOL because they felt their presumed rights were not being protected under USAPA. Both groups took actions to protect their rights. One has been proven to be wrong concering their quest to jetison an arbitrated list and one was correct that the requirment to use the NIC transfered from the former CBA to the new, as recently affirmed by the 9th. Other than USAPA being proven wrong and AOL being proven correct, what's the difference?

No NIC for you ever, you kids need to get a grip on that reality.



The good news is in a few more years you may be able to get out of the fishbowl.

 

[CallawayGolf]

USAPA parked the west for 8 plus years. The last few years has seen massive recovery by east pilots financially. The 330 positions have resulted in huge W2 increases.
Nic4us has no idea that east pilots have PBGC and DC monies that she never refers to.
west pilots helped drag the rest of the industry down for years with low pay, no pensions.
Do the math. An east pilot who collects PBGC for say 20 yrs after retirement will have earned an additional $880,000.00 that a west pilot will never see.
Those are facts west pilots conveniently disregard.

Sounds like you (speaking for the east) and Nic4us (speaking for the west) are both quite happy with your wages since the merger. Status quo was the best option for everyone I guess.

 

[A320 Driver]

No NIC for you ever, you kids need to get a grip on that reality.
The good news is in a few more years you may be able to get out of the fishbowl.

You must know something I don't. To the casual observer, this thing could go either way. A federal judge in PHX and a 3 member arbitration board hold all the cards, IMO.

 

[EastUS1]

Sounds like you (speaking for the east) and Nic4us (speaking for the west) are both quite happy with your wages since the merger. Status quo was the best option for everyone I guess.

 
Well, we've history to draw on there, and it seems that much (if nothing else) was essentially agreed to through both our groups' actions. No mindless "Nyaah, Nyaahs" at all intended, but merely an observation. This whole sorry mess has been a waste of resources that more reasonable minds could've easily avoided. Oh well..."it is what it is"....
 
Per "Nyaah, Nyaahs": Show me where even the slightest semblance of "reasonable minds" could ever be found among a group of such completely hopeless village idiots like cactusboy53 babbling about how "This is Sparta!"? 😉 How 'bout the intial cadre of west posters here with their shouts of (and I'm directly quoting, believe it or not) "Booyooshaka!"..."Final and Binding...It's OVER!..Get used to it!"....and of course; "You wont' even get 200 cards!...Send the cards...I DARE you!"....? No possible group progress can be had whenever any group contains such a preponderance of childish defectives.

 

[Phoenix]

....It took them eight years, but the 9th finally came back and affirmed management's understanding that using any other seniority list besides the NIC for the CBA would have created a substantial legal liability for them for culluding with USAPA to violate their DFR to all pilots. ...

 
 
You usually are level headed and precise with your words (and post infrequently).  Not so this time.  No where did the 9th say what you just said.  The reality is that the 9th stopped short of requiring anybody to ever use the Nic for anything at all, ever.  It is the most unremarkable "win". 
 
DUI never gave a rats patoot about anything except more profits and the Nic is just one more item in a long list of levers that enable the real winners to buy higher, wider, and longer yachts (i.e. Goldfish, steeped in self-pity and self-righteousness, notwithstanding). 

 

[Phoenix]

You must know something I don't. To the casual observer, this thing could go either way. A federal judge in PHX and a 3 member arbitration board hold all the cards, IMO.

 
 
Bob Crandall told the pilots they should figure it out rather than leave it to others.  Stupid pilot "leaders".  

 

[Phoenix]

Well USAPA intentionally dealt Management a royal flush and promised them a huge financial liability if they colluded to dump that unbeatable hand to accept USAPA's twisted view of labor contract law. Name one airline CEO that you think would have willing colluded with a CBA under the threat of a painfully ripe DFR / collusion action? Besides higher labor costs and a large penalty for violating a labor agreement with the intent to harm the minority group of pilots, what could Management have expected in return for further negotiations from 2007-2014?

 
 
Anyone that has ever run a business knows there is only one cost that is managed.  Duh.  😀

 

[EastUS1]

 
 
Bob Crandall told the pilots they should figure it out rather than leave it to others.  Stupid pilot "leaders".  

 
Indeed.