2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

They only have 1243 active pilots now flying out of PHX!

It sounds like you're celebrating the continued & systematic dismantling of the Phoenix base started by former AAA management. It sounds like you're happy that the company has seemingly helped you do everything in their power to discourage & deny us the seniority list that was the product of a mutually agreed upon process.

Good for you. I truly hope that you and those responsible for this mess get everything that they truly deserve.

 

[stevegreif]

You're blaming Hogg and Bular for this?  I think your BFF Parker/Kirby/Isom had much more input than those two! Just sayin'.

 

[cactusboy53]

You're blaming Hogg and Bular for this?  I think your BFF Parker/Kirby/Isom had much more input than those two! Just sayin'.

I'm blaming everyone that started this little "evil plan", starting with the "van down by the river" gang all the way to players that have been or will be found in colusion.

The courts & arbitrators will be made aware of every single act of wrongdoing & douchbaggery that we can find & prove. Penalties will be asked for.

 

[nevergiveup]

The liberal reward without work ethic wins again!

 

[Pi brat]

It sounds like you're celebrating the continued & systematic dismantling of the Phoenix base started by former AAA management. It sounds like you're happy that the company has seemingly helped you do everything in their power to discourage & deny us the seniority list that was the product of a mutually agreed upon process.

Good for you. I truly hope that you and those responsible for this mess get everything that they truly deserve.

You mean former AWA management, right? You know, the ones that knew it's real value.

 

[nic4us]

All West 757's parked. Mgmnt saying the hub wll be downsized to 1200 asap.

Go gurl.

 
Old news.  But, it is not ALL West 757s it is 8 out of 9, and the fleet is going to 16.  Wonder where those 15 757s are coming from?
 
Also, with the remaining retirements this year, PHX will be close to 1200 active pilots.
 
What did you think we still had 1880 pilots like we did 10 years ago at the merger.  You would be wrong in that assumption.  It seems the scabs stole around 600 West jobs.

 

[nic4us]

 
"given the position and respect your true seniority holds"...? Well, there you have it in a "nut" shell folks; it seems just the whim of some arbitrator should be the determining factor as to who one should "respect" in life?....Seriously kids? Sigh...Small wonder the whole Fantasyland/mental illness of "sparta" was ever able to even be formed out in PHX at all then.
 
For additional laughs; perhaps nic4us might now indugle as all with a proper definition of what "true seniority" (or "true" anything, for that matter) even supposedly means to him...? Well "nic"? Should you wish to leave most readers rolling on the floor; you could always toss in terms like "earned" and of course "Integrity". 😉

 
Only need two words...Final and Binding.
 
Perhaps you can enlighten the board how reneging on an agreement "earned" you the right to comment on "integrity"?
 
There,, used both words, even in the same sentence!!
 
 
Now I have done it!  Probably get the O'le dogfight challenge from the guy who supports reneging on contractual agreements to steal his co-workers jobs.

 

[Phoenix]

 
 
We all recognize your fondness of using intimidation as a means to silence dissent.
 
I think the majority of LAA pilots are mature enough to leave politics out of the cockpit.

 
 
No one said anything about the cockpit.  
 
Posting offensive personal attacks on C&R is just immature if not outright stupid.  Banter on an anonymous board between cute screen names is one thing, but personal attacks with full names is entirely another.  You aren't being stupid on C&R, I don't know why you would encourage west poster to continue inflaming the LAA pilots.  Oh well.  

 

[traderjake]

I haven't seen any personal attacks on LAA pilots, only attacks on ideas, but I'll take your word on it.

 

[snapthis]

West Merger Committee Update - August 31 2015
Fellow pilots,

We last updated you on July 6, following the SLI arbitration panels decision to urge APA to make efforts to form a new East Merger Committee in light of USAPAs permanent withdrawal from the SLI process. As you may recall, the West Merger Committee opposed this decision for many reasons, including our firm and founded belief that a new East Merger Committee would assuredly continue the decade-long concerted effort of East pilots to thwart integration with the West. The arbitration panel incorporated our concerns into its decision as follows:

To the extent that USAPA and its Merger Committee have exited the process and have decided not to return, that is not the responsibility of the Board or the remaining Parties and should not materially prejudice their legitimate rights and expectations with respect to the timing of the seniority list integration arbitration proceeding in this case.

The panel also contemplated the possibility that a new East Committee might be bound by any injunction the district court would impose (once the case found its way back to that court) prohibiting it from seeking an integrated seniority list based on anything other than the Nicolau Award:

Even if any newly appointed East Merger Committee is limited by the Addington Court in terms of the position that it can advocate with respect to the Nicolau Award and its application, there remain other areas in the position of an East Merger Committee that may vary from advocacy by the West Merger Committee, the AASPIC or the Company.

And recognizing what it saw as the uncertainties arising from the circumstances, the panel said the following:

If necessary to avoid undue delay in finalizing the ISL, the Board is prepared to proceed in the event that a new Merger Committee to represent the East pilots is not created in sufficient time to participate in the arbitration process pursuant to the revised schedule [i.e. recommencing the hearings on September 29].

Finally, in unmistakable terms, the panel placed the blame for the current circumstances exactly where it belongs:

Any loss of direct representation for the East pilot group will be the result of the actions of USAPA and the USAPA Merger Committee and not any action on the part of the Board or any other Party to this process.

Pursuant to the arbitration panels decision, APA announced a new East Merger Committee only 12 days later, on July 18, 2015. Despite having been in existence for over 6 weeks now, and despite the clear direction of the panel on the subject, the new East Merger Committee, through its legal counsel Bill Wilder, quite predictably sent the panel a letter on Friday, August 28, requesting that the SLI process again be postponed. We have posted a copy of the letter on our website at the following link:

Wilder Letter

http://www.west-merger-committee.com/updates.html

The panel has directed responses from the other parties by 6:00 pm Eastern time on September 2 and obviously, we will once again vigorously oppose this request for delay, and will respectfully ask that the panel abide by its July promise to not materially prejudice [the] legitimate rights and expectations [of the West pilots and the company] with respect to the timing of the seniority list integration arbitration proceeding in this case. We believe the company will firmly agree with our position. Neither AAPSIC nor APA have indicated their position(s), though AAPSIC previously supported delaying the process, and according to Bill Wilders letter, the East Merger Committee expects APA to support its request. We will promptly inform you when the arbitration panel responds to the request.

We will conclude this update with the following words from our July 6 update:

[N]o one should forget that we were completely prepared to present and defend the Nicolau Award as the basis of our seniority proposal prior to the Ninth Circuit's decision, and that decision only strengthens our ability to do so, irrespective of what the SLI process may look like and what some newly appointed East pilots' committee may argue.

Sincerely,

West Merger Committee

 

[Pi brat]

Hmmm, just when you think the road is straightening out, another curve.
 
"The APA notified the East Pilot SIC that following the court of appeals’ denial on August 24, 2015 of the petition for rehearing filed by USAPA (see Attachment A), it anticipates the Court of Appeals to issue a mandate to the United States District Court next week. It further anticipates that the plaintiffs, who include members of the West Pilot Committee and are represented by the West Committee merger counsel, Mr. Harper, will request that the United States District Court impose the obligations of the injunction mandated by the Court of Appeals on the East Pilot SIC. The APA has stated to the East Pilot SIC its intent to defend the Committee in the remand proceeding and oppose a request by the plaintiffs to bind the Committee to the terms of any injunction. Proceedings on that injunction will likely not occur until after the scheduled October 12-15, 2015 hearing dates."

 

[Phoenix]

Once again the courts fail to aid the people they are supposed to serve. The courts have stuck their nose into negotiations numerous times at the most inopportune junctures (been inconsistent, contradictory, and inconclusive). Now we are told the appeals court presumably failed to say what was necessary the frst time in their ruling and now have to add a supplemental mandate?

 

[Phoenix]

The West always took the position that negotiations were over (and that was their right), but their decision to chase a resolution in the courts had consequences.... After so many years of the obvious consequences they simply can't claim ignorance or complain when they keep making choices that perpetuate the same consequences.

The delay and stagnation in the fishbowl was not inevitable.

 

[CaptainBigWood]

They only have 1243 active pilots now flying out of PHX!

Parkirby will continue to get RJ's to replace Mainline flying. They appointed one of the sharpest management pilots in charge of pilot recruitment, "Bob Skinner".
The leading flight schools have a waiver on the 1500 hr 121 regulation to 1000 hr.  Guys are getting hired on Regionals with 1000 hrs of flight instruction time.
Attrition is the only means of upward movement for the next several years.  The point is, old mainlines replaced with RJ's.  Fewer seats and higher fares. 

 

[end_of_alpa]

What's nice about all this is that now the power of the labor unions is almost all gone and any negotiations for pay and work conditions will be in the courts. The only thing most of us can do now is come to work, take what you can and give nothing back.

Parkirby will continue to get RJ's to replace Mainline flying. They appointed one of the sharpest management pilots in charge of pilot recruitment, "Bob Skinner".
The leading flight schools have a waiver on the 1500 hr 121 regulation to 1000 hr.  Guys are getting hired on Regionals with 1000 hrs of flight instruction time.
Attrition is the only means of upward movement for the next several years.  The point is, old mainlines replaced with RJ's.  Fewer seats and higher fares.