2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Phoenix]

You left off a 4th list in effect.  The company accepted Nicolau award.  The only list covering all LCC pilots.
 
Oh, and the West was not a party to the Protocol agreement.  Had we been, the Nic would have been the only starter for the LCC pilots.

You left out the 5th list... The Revised Unofficial Nicolau List, posted on Cactuspilot.com (and very different from the list "accepted" by the company") and of course used by the West committee---Just another list conspicuously absent from the protocol agreement.

As to being bound by the Protocol Agreement, Fruend rambled for three pages of testimony to lodge his displeasure with the Protocol Agreement, but was very circumspect about the extent the West is bound by the Protocol Agreement (frankly he denied being subject to the PA, but admitted being subject to the BOA.. and to be sure, there is a difference!).

Fruend's whining and equivocation was immediately apparent when Wilder answered the same question succinctly, honestly, and righteously (in a single paragraph, rather than three "Fruend pages").

"The East Pilot Seniority Integration Committee was appointed -- established by the APA.
And so our view is we are an APA-established committee. And to the extent that the APA established the Protocol Agreement that we are -- and provided that the committee would be a party under it, that we are bound by that agreement, and we act as a party pursuant to that agreement."

 

[Phoenix]

You left off a 4th list in effect.  The company accepted Nicolau award....

The truth of that proposition depends upon the meaning of the term "in effect". Never mind that the Revised Unifficial Nicolau List was never "accepted" by the company. 😛

 

[nic4us]

You left out the 5th list... The Revised Unofficial Nicolau List, posted on Cactuspilot.com (and very different from the list "accepted" by the company") and of course used by the West committee---Just another list conspicuously absent from the protocol agreement.

As to being bound by the Protocol Agreement, Fruend rambled for three pages of testimony to lodge his displeasure with the Protocol Agreement, but was very circumspect about the extent the West is bound by the Protocol Agreement (frankly he denied being subject to the PA, but admitted being subject to the BOA.. and to be sure, there is a difference!).

Fruend's whining and equivocation was immediately apparent when Wilder answered the same question succinctly, honestly, and righteously (in a single paragraph, rather than three "Fruend pages").

"The East Pilot Seniority Integration Committee was appointed -- established by the APA.
And so our view is we are an APA-established committee. And to the extent that the APA established the Protocol Agreement that we are -- and provided that the committee would be a party under it, that we are bound by that agreement, and we act as a party pursuant to that agreement."

 
Minor technicality....the West committee was formed from the resolution of an arbitration.  An arbitration resulting from the lack of consensus on a portion of the PA, of which the West was not a party.
 
So, little different for the West.
 
The West is not bound by the PA, and our presence at the SLI is proof the PA is faulty and in violation of federal law, as it was negotiated by "uscaba", who is under injunction from any participation in the SLI.
 
So the question begs, how is uscaba prohibited from participating if they had a hand in crafting the PA?

 

[nic4us]

The truth of that proposition depends upon the meaning of the term "in effect". Never mind that the Revised Unifficial Nicolau List was never "accepted" by the company. 😛

 
Very true, and I agree.
 
When I first read 10h, I considered the Nic as "in effect".
 
10h does not say 3 lists, or define "in effect".
 
Therefore, it was inclusive of the Nic, as stated by uscaba's feigned neutrality on the issue during MOU roadshows and publications.

 

[Phoenix]

Minor technicality....the West committee was formed from the resolution of an arbitration.  An arbitration resulting from the lack of consensus on a portion of the PA, of which the West was not a party.
 
So, little different for the West.
 
The West is not bound by the PA, and our presence at the SLI is proof the PA is faulty and in violation of federal law, as it was negotiated by "uscaba", who is under injunction from any participation in the SLI.
 
So the question begs, how is uscaba prohibited from participating if they had a hand in crafting the PA?

False. No difference. All three committees were formed by the APA pursuant to the protocol agreement.... Wilder gets it. Wilder was correct. Fruend babbled for three pages of testimony and got it wrong.

It's really a simple concept. The answer is straightforward.


West committee formed by APA, at direction of MB arbitrators, pursuant to the Protocol Agreement:
"ORDER
The Board orders APA to designate the West Pilots Merger Committee as a full participant in the seniority integration process."

East committee formed by APA, at direction of MB arbitrators, pursuant to the Protocol Agreement:

PROCEDURAL AWARD OF THE BOARD
Question No. 1
Whether APA should engage in best efforts to establish a new merger committee to represent legacy U.S. Airways East pilots (East Merger Committee)?
The Board answers Question No. 1 in the affirmative: APA should engage in best efforts to establish a new merger committee to represent legacy U.S. Airways East pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

Very true, and I agree.
 
When I first read 10h, I considered the Nic as "in effect".
 
10h does not say 3 lists, or define "in effect".
 
Therefore, it was inclusive of the Nic, as stated by uscaba's feigned neutrality on the issue during MOU roadshows and publications.

Pay attention. 😀 the AAPSIC already gave you the info you need.

The first objective fact is that there were three seniority lists in effect as of December 9, 2013. The American list, the East list, and the West list.
That is recited -- that is recited in paragraph 2.b of the Protocol Agreement, which is Joint Exhibit 10.

 

[Claxon]

You left off a 4th list in effect.  The company accepted Nicolau award.  The only list covering all LCC pilots.
 
Oh, and the West was not a party to the Protocol agreement.  Had we been, the Nic would have been the only starter for the LCC pilots.

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby

 

[Phoenix]

Nic4us, could you expand on the meaning and effect of "never"? Please.

 

[CactusPilot1]

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby

Scott Kirby loved Ucrapa and LOA 93.
 
 
Management suck up, you are.
 

 

[Phoenix]

Scott Kirby loved Ucrapa and LOA 93.
 
 
Management suck up, you are.

Ok. But what does "never" mean?

(Fruend doesn't answer hard questions either. He's a good fit for his clients.)

 

[CactusPilot1]

Ok. But what does "never" mean?
(Fruend doesn't answer hard questions either. He's a good fit for his clients.)

He's perfect for the job. He's not going to allow the Usapians' lies and deception go unchecked and that's the truth of your opposition to a West committee. Another loss for Ucrapa.

No do-overs.

 

[Phoenix]

He's perfect for the job. He's not going to allow the Usapians' lies and deception go unchecked and that's the truth of your opposition to a West committee. Another loss for Ucrapa.
No do-overs.

Wilder already explained clearly that the East is bound by the PA, so obviously there is no objection to the West Committee's participation as an equal merger committee.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh, PLEASE...PLEASE let Wilder show up.  Please!

So, are you elated?

 

[nevergiveup]

 
Very true, and I agree.
 
When I first read 10h, I considered the Nic as "in effect".
 
10h does not say 3 lists, or define "in effect".
 
Therefore, it was inclusive of the Nic, as stated by uscaba's feigned neutrality on the issue during MOU roadshows and publications.

Then you need to take some reading comprehention courses! Is English your native language?

 

[Claxon]

Scott Kirby loved Ucrapa and LOA 93.
 
 
Management suck up, you are.

Time to re focus on west pilot agenda....