2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Understand.
 
I think I'm a little more positive than you, but I have the same concerns.  This team is pretty good at mergers and synergies, but do they have what it takes to make sound strategic decisions for this company going forward?  
 
Bean

"Pretty good at mergers"........... Seriously



Is that is why we are the worst........... http://skift.com/2016/01/22/skift-business-traveler-6/




No, I have to totally disagree with you, these guys had a chance to make this place great and just continued the same AWA style way to run this place, the APA are about the most clueless bunch but are now starting to figure out things..........Delta knows how to run an airline and treat employees the right way.

 

[cactusboy53]

Parties to a contract can write it with any contingency they want, and once they sign it they have to live with the consequences, even if they assume such a contingency won't matter.

Arbitration is nothing but a subsection of a greater contract, no matter how desperately anyone wants it to be more.

 
And then Judge Silver WARNED you with this:
 
[SIZE=12pt]“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.  By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/SIZE]

 
Guess what?  You walked out on the THIN ICE still.  Your "union" is being held financially responsible, and the officers are being held personally liable.  Ooops.

 

[cactusboy53]

PS .........I'm guessing 99% no NIC

 
And the el Presidente' Cleary said this:
 
[SIZE=12pt]“…The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Board’s Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPA’s President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, “The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]US Airwaves June/July 2000[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]US Air Merger Committee Members: Todd Cardoza (PIT), Mike Cleary (BOS),Randy Mowery (PIT)[/SIZE]

 

 

[cactusboy53]

.......these guys had a chance to make this place great and just continued the same AWA style way to run this place, the APA are about the most clueless bunch but are now starting to figure out things..........Delta knows how to run an airline and treat employees the right way.

 
Lucky for you that "these guys" made the move to "merge" (I know you HATE it when I use the word "acquired") the two airlines.  You got to keep your job (you were working when the merger was announced, right?), and keep your "career" intact.  Then again, you successfully got to stay on LOA93 unnecessarily for 7 years (at least).  Real men of genius.
 
Maybe they'll take you at Delta, it you're not too old.

 

[luvthe9]

And then Judge Silver WARNED you with this:
 
“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.  By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”
 
Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge

No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012

 
Guess what?  You walked out on the THIN ICE still.  Your "union" is being held financially responsible, and the officers are being held personally liable.  Ooops.

10 The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR. 2010 WL 2220058 at *5.

 

[luvthe9]

Lucky for you that "these guys" made the move to "merge" (I know you HATE it when I use the word "acquired") the two airlines.  You got to keep your job (you were working when the merger was announced, right?), and keep your "career" intact.  Then again, you successfully got to stay on LOA93 unnecessarily for 7 years (at least).  Real men of genius.
 
Maybe they'll take you at Delta, it you're not too old.

May 9 Scott Kirby, revealed Project Zanzibar It is now beyond dispute that the junior AW pilot, Dave Odell, and 300-400 other AW F/Os hired in 2002-05 would have been furloughed absent the US merger, as AW went into Chapter 11, perhaps never to emerge.





Just remember we saved you from project Zanzibar.



Footnote: ACQUIRED America West Holdings (2004 rank: 678), Sept. 27, 2005. For accounting purposes, however, the company is treating America West as the acquirer.




America West Airlines Inc. 10-Q government guaranteed loan require us to maintain a minimum cash balance of $100 million, and restrict our ability to take certain other actions, including mergers and acquisitions, investments and asset sales.




UNABLE........get it flounder.......





Q. What about the fact that the Company accepted the Nicolau list, arent they required then to use that list as opposed to USAPAs bargaining proposal?

A. No, as the Circuit Court recognized, ALPA itself was trying to broker a compromise in order to break through the impasse (We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA.). USAPA is entitled to pursue its goal of obtaining a ratifiable agreement that advances the interests of the bargaining unit within a wide range of discretion.

 

[Hope777]

 
Lucky for you that "these guys" made the move to "merge" (I know you HATE it when I use the word "acquired") the two airlines.  You got to keep your job (you were working when the merger was announced, right?), and keep your "career" intact.  Then again, you successfully got to stay on LOA93 unnecessarily for 7 years (at least).  Real men of genius.
 
Maybe they'll take you at Delta, it you're not too old.

Even DELTA didnt want these Management Clowns!  They tried and Failed at buying DL.  Thank God for their employees.  Their Management actually treats them with Respect !

 

[Phoenix]

 
And then Judge Silver WARNED you with this:
 
[SIZE=12pt]“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.  By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/SIZE]

 
Guess what?  You walked out on the THIN ICE still.  Your "union" is being held financially responsible, and the officers are being held personally liable.  Ooops.

 
 
Try to keep up.  

 

[A320 Driver]

You try to keep up. It's over. You had your say, East and AA had theirs. It is out of our hands now and whatever happens happens...so be it. This has gone on too long. Anyone foolish enough to throw money at a challenge to the BOA's ruling on seniority integration is just that...a fool.
 
Time to move on...

 

[nevergiveup]

You try to keep up. It's over. You had your say, East and AA had theirs. It is out of our hands now and whatever happens happens...so be it. This has gone on too long. Anyone foolish enough to throw money at a challenge to the BOA's ruling on seniority integration is just that...a fool.
 
Time to move on...

in the perfect world.

 

[cactusboy53]

in the perfect world.

Or in a world where a man honors his commitments (of course I mean the FIRST agreement & process).

 

[nevergiveup]

Or in a world where a man honors his commitments (of course I mean the FIRST agreement & process).

agreed...no contract=no Nic implementation...per the agreement.

 

[nic4us]

agreed...no contract=no Nic implementation...per the agreement.

 
Also per the agreement, a contract would be negotiated that included the Nic.
 
Scab union broke that portion of the agreement.
 
Also per the agreement, negotiations for a contract were mandatory.
 
Scab union broke that portion of agreement by walking out of negotiations.
 
Also per the agreement, each MEC could seek separate section 6 if negotiations failed.
 
Scab union and company broke that part of agreement when West sought separate section 6 negotiations.
 
Also per agreement, status quo would remain until new agreement.
 
Scab union broke that part of agreement with 18 month intentional delay of negotiations while seeking a false snap back provision that they lost in arbitration.
 
 
The list goes on and on.
 
Your insistence that the agreement was followed is absurd.  Granted no contract=no Nic implementation...the agreement was a blueprint to merge, not maintain separate ops.  As a matter of fact, the agreement did not include separate ratification, that was implied in the agreement by ALPA policy, and the first thing the scab union did away with in its C&BLs in order to further renege on the AGREEMENT.
 
In the shortest reply possible....
 
USAPA=SCAB

 

[nic4us]

You try to keep up. It's over. You had your say, East and AA had theirs. It is out of our hands now and whatever happens happens...so be it. This has gone on too long. Anyone foolish enough to throw money at a challenge to the BOA's ruling on seniority integration is just that...a fool.
 
Time to move on...

 
I agree 100%
 
However, you may change your mind 2 years from now when the results of the current SLI are still not used at AAL.

 

[nic4us]

Even DELTA didnt want these Management Clowns!  They tried and Failed at buying DL.  Thank God for their employees.  Their Management actually treats them with Respect !

 
I again agree 100%
 
However, if you were a usapa supporter.......management showed you all the respect you deserved.