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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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Claxon said:
UTurn: Why Wye River Didn't Save Dave?
If the Wright brothers were alive today Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs. Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines, USA Today, 8 June 1994.
Last February at Wye River, Rice and Prater told both MECs that the NIC would never be implemented. The East pilots had the votes to stop it. Thats why ALPA spent so much time and money trying to get us to compromise. The failure of Wye River pretty much ended ALPA on the property and ALPA knew it.
The real victims of Wye River are the 175 West pilots getting furloughed. We can thank our MEC for that. The Pro-ALPA East MEC offered a compromise they thought would save ALPA and get a cram-down contract vote out before the final USAPA election. According to our sources who were there, the East offer had fences that protected their retirement attrition and prevented East pilots from bidding into PHX/LAS and pushing down West pilots down. Furloughs would be based on length of service. We hear that came out of an old Empire Airlines furlough model.
The East MEC offer would have put Dave ODell ahead of approximately 400 east pilots (not a typo four hundred). The East MECs offer was furloughs based on longevity, months of active mainline service.
Thats right, guys. They were desperate to save ALPA and their cushy union jobs. The polling must have told them their plan would save ALPA. For sure their proposal would SAVE DAVE from furlough.
Just like in the B-757 IOU, the E-190 arbitration IOU and unbalanced East-West flying, our MEC ended up getting 175 West pilots furloughed, because they refused to negotiate and THEY TURNED DOWN THE OFFER!
From what weve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MECs refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave ODell from being furloughed. You turned it down.
So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume, just remember who didnt SAVE DAVE.
Your compatriots provided tremendous information about Freund and his feelings about the Nicolau list. Freund is on record stating it was merely a bargaining position.
This is known by the APA. When you try to present the Nicolau, you better be prepared to deal with the APA because you cannot argue putting only east furloughed in your staple job. M/B is for keeping you socialists from that. If you staple east furloughed, you have to staple AA furloughed.good luck with trying that on a group of furloughed much larger than your entire pilot list. Hopefully the east and APA will slam a deal that protects them and crashes you hard. FREUND will be in the harsh light.
Pound sand.

Being called a Socialist by an Usapian is comical. USAPA were the communists of unionism. You and the rest of your Politburo comrades can enjoy your irrelevance and watch as we present the arbitrated list to the panel. You can pound your firsts on the table in protest.

History has shown you won't impress the panel by throwing a tantrum.

http://www..com/watch?v=ztYwQhKrTJQ&sns=em
 
Phoenix said:
Its not a suggestion.  Implicitly assuming the limits of the APA conniving,  well...  When one "thinks" about what others will or will not do with their pen, it is a gamble.  
 
Did APA sign a deal with ALPA?  ALPA eventually lost the lawsuit, but both ALPA and APA could afford the lawsuits plenty easy.   
 
What did it cost AOL to go all the way to the SCOTUS?  It was commonly reported as $2Million.   Supposedly USAPA has $15Million.  So perhaps AOL should consider that USAPA can be a defendant for about 7.5 trips to the SCOTUS,  and APA certainly can afford more.   Threats of lawsuits are not that persuasive, especially considering the "time value of litigation", uhhh, I meant "the time value of seniority.
You've got a big problem. Hey, go ahead ignore it.


Defendants authorized the use of, used, and continue to use USAPA
funds for purposes that do not constitute collective legal action on behalf of the pilot
group. Specifically, between September 16, 2014, and January 9, 2015, Defendants
expended USAPA funds to advance USAPAs position before the PAB that the West
Pilots should be denied separate representation in the seniority integration process
occasioned by the merger with American Airlines. USAPAs position before the PAB
advanced only the interests of the East Pilots (which includes Defendants here) at the
expense of the interests of the West Pilots. Accordingly, expenditures in furtherance of
this position were not collective in nature nor on behalf of the pilot group as a whole.
34. Since September 16, 2014, and continuing to the present, Defendants have
authorized the use of, used, and continue to use USAPA funds for the purpose of
advancing the seniority interests of only the East Pilots (including Defendants) at the
expense of the interests of the West Pilots (including Plaintiffs) in the Substantive SLI
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 12 of 19
13
Process. More specifically, on information and belief, Defendants have authorized the
use of, used, and continue to use USAPA funds to, inter alia , pay the fees of lawyers and
experts and to pay flight pay loss and expenses of East Pilots who are members of the
East Pilots Merger Committee, all of whom who will advance the East Pilots interest in
the Substantive SLI Process.
35. In correspondence dated December 4, December 23, December 31, January 9, and
January 20, attached to the Complaint as Exhibits 610, counsel for the West Pilots,
Marty Harper, further advised USAPA General Counsel Brian ODwyer of the National
Officers fiduciary duties to account for the funds in USAPAs treasury, to disburse those
funds to USAPAs membership, and to cease using USAPA funds in furtherance of
matters adverse to the West Pilots interests. Mr. Harper re-asserted Plaintiffs demands
for, inter alia , a full accounting of USAPAs treasury, a detailed list of what collective
legal actions Defendants relied upon in determining to defer dissolution, an immediate
distribution of USAPA funds that are in excess of those contemplated legal actions, a
specific accounting of what funds are needed to wind down USAPAs affairs, and an
immediate stop to the use of USAPA funds to support litigation and other legal action
adverse to the West Pilots interests. See id.
36. On February 13, 2015, Plaintiffs wrote Defendants reiterating the demands
previously made by Mr. Velez and Mr. Harper. (attached to Complaint as Exhibit 11.)
37. Despite being fully advised of Defendants fiduciary duties, Defendants failed to
accede to any of Plaintiffs and the West Pilots legitimate and reasonable demands.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 13 of 19
14
Consequently, Defendants have violated, and continue to violate, their fiduciary duties to
USAPAs members, including Plaintiffs.
FIRST CLAIM FOR RELIEF
(Breach of Fiduciary Duty Claim against USAPA National Officers Gary
Hummel, Stephen Bradford, Rob Streble, and Steve Smyser, and BPR Members
Robert Frear, Courtney Borman, Ronald Nelson, Paul DiOrio, Paul Music, John
Taylor, Joe Stein, Pete Dugstad, Jay Milkey, and Stephen Nathan.)
38. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate herein by reference the foregoing paragraphs 1
through 37.
39. As the National Officers of USAPA, Defendants Hummel, Bradford, Streble, and
Smyser as well as Defendant BPR members Frear, Borman, Nelson, DiOrio, Music,
Taylor, Stein, Dugstad, Milkey, and Nathan, are USAPA fiduciaries, obliged by section
501(a) of the LMRDA, to hold [USAPAs] money and property solely for the benefit of
[USAPA] and its members and expend the same in accordance with [USAPAs]
constitution and bylaws . . . . 29 U.S.C. § 501(a).
40. By expending USAPA funds after the decertification of USAPA as the exclusive
bargaining representative of US Airways pilots and after the appointment of a West Pilots
Merger Committee to represent the interest of the West Pilots in the Substantive SLI
Process in a manner that does not advance collective legal action on behalf of the pilot
group, Defendants violated their section 501(a) duties to hold USAPAs money solely
for the benefit of its members and to expend such monies only in accordance with
USAPAs constitution and bylaws.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 14 of 19
15
PRAYER FOR RELIEF
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Court:
(1) Order an accounting of USAPAs treasury from September 16, 2014, to the
present, including a full itemization of the value of the treasury as of September 16, 2014
(including any special assessment funds); monies paid in furtherance of any USAPA
legal action since September 16, 2014; USAPAs indebtedness as of September 16, 2014
(and any subsequently accrued debts); and an itemization of any funds reasonably
necessary to wind down the affairs of USAPA as a labor organization.
(2) Order the Defendants to pay restitution of the funds wrongfully expended.
(3) Preliminarily and permanently enjoin Defendants from further expending
any USAPA monies in furtherance of the Substantive SLI Process.
(4) Order Defendants to disburse immediately to USAPA members in
accordance with Article I, section III of its Constitution all funds remaining in its treasury
as of its decertification as an exclusive bargaining representative on September 16, 2014,
except such funds reasonably necessary for the collective action on behalf of the pilot
group and ordinary expenses of winding down.
(5) Award Plaintiffs their attorneys fees and costs for bringing this lawsuit
pursuant to 29 U.S.C. § 501(b
(6) Award Plaintiffs such other relief as the Court deems just.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 15 of 19
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I think I would like to represent myself in arbitration. Give me back my share of the $ I paid in dues.
 
nevergiveup said:
I think I would like to represent myself in arbitration. Give me back my share of the $ I paid in dues.
Be sure to pull that get out of jail free card during the trial. You can try it, most likely it will be found invalid.

Officers' duties
Section 501(a) begins by stating that union "officers, agents, shop stewards, and other representatives" 41 occupy positions of trust and thus carry the burden of responsibility to carry certain fiduciary duties. The question of whether fiduciary duties include pensions and welfare trusts is preempted by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. The specific duties of union officers are to
Hold the union's money and property solely for the union's benefit;
To manage, invest and expend union funds and holdings in accordance with the union's constitution and bylaws;
To refrain from acting against or for another party acting against the union;
To avoid holding or acquiring interests that conflict with the union's interests; and
To account for any personal profit the individual may have acquired performing their union duties.
Exculpatory or "get out of jail free" clauses have been found to be against public policy and thus illegal

You can't bail yourself out with Monopoly money which is all that you will have left when this is all over :lol:
 
The only on that will get any $ is Marty, and the funds will come from the west.....again!

A good attorney can convence his client that they can win, even if they continue to lose over and over again.
 
nevergiveup said:
The only on that will get any $ is Marty, and the funds will come from the west.....again!
A good attorney can convence his client that they can win, even if they continue to lose over and over again.
Your concern about his legal bills tells me that Marty is doing a good job. 😉
 
nevergiveup said:
I believe they are your legal bills, not his. Carry on.
Not necessarily. 😉


(5) Award Plaintiffs their attorneys fees and costs for bringing this lawsuit
pursuant to 29 U.S.C. § 501(b
(6) Award Plaintiffs such other relief as the Court deems just.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 15 of 19
 
Remeber, it's easy to file a lawsuit.
Winning is one thing, but collecting a dime is a whole different ballgame.
Getting you attorney's fees paid by someone else......priceless.
Good luck! Hopefully it will be resolved in a few years. In the mean time, keep those checks coming!
 
nevergiveup said:
Remeber, it's easy to file a lawsuit.
Winning is one thing, but collecting a dime is a whole different ballgame.
Getting you attorney's fees paid by someone else......priceless.
Good luck! Hopefully it will be resolved in a few years. In the mean time, keep those checks coming!
Collecting isn't going to be a problem after the proper pressure is applied. I don't think time will be on your side because you have run out of places to hide. Enjoy living in your compound until then 😉
 
EastCheats said:
Be sure to pull that get out of jail free card during the trial. You can try it, most likely it will be found invalid.
Officers' duties
Section 501(a) begins by stating that union "officers, agents, shop stewards, and other representatives" 41 occupy positions of trust and thus carry the burden of responsibility to carry certain fiduciary duties. The question of whether fiduciary duties include pensions and welfare trusts is preempted by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. The specific duties of union officers are to
Hold the union's money and property solely for the union's benefit;
To manage, invest and expend union funds and holdings in accordance with the union's constitution and bylaws;
To refrain from acting against or for another party acting against the union;
To avoid holding or acquiring interests that conflict with the union's interests; and
To account for any personal profit the individual may have acquired performing their union duties.
Exculpatory or "get out of jail free" clauses have been found to be against public policy and thus illegal
You can't bail yourself out with Monopoly money which is all that you will have left when this is all over :lol:
THE LIST OF west PILOT THREATS:

You will never vote ALPA out
You won't get 200 cards
Leonidas is going to get you
AWAPPA is going to get you
EYE on USAPA will get you
ALPA is going to get you
Andy Jacobs is going to get you
Judge Wake is going to get you
You will pay millions in damages (nic4 us mantra)
The 9 th is going to get you
Marty is going to get you
Addington 2 is going to get you
Doug Parker is going to get you
Scott Kirby is going to get you
Judge Silver is going to get you
east pilots will surrender their hundreds of Capt. Upgrades
The APA is going to get you
New arbitrators are going to get you
Marty will jail USAPA officers
Marty is going to get you again, and again........
 
EastCheats said:
Collecting isn't going to be a problem after the proper pressure is applied. I don't think time will be on your side because you have run out of places to hide. Enjoy living in your compound until then 😉
Marty will take for for the ride as long as you stay in the car.
 
Claxon said:
They can't seem to stop getting in Martys' ride.
At least Marty has a ride. :lol:

USAPA Update: USAPA Car for Sale

The Silver USAPA car is for sale. Closed Bids will be accepted by members in good standing until 2359 on Tuesday, January 13, 2015, with a minimum bid of $8,000. Terms of the sale are: Certified cashier’s check for a nonrefundable deposit by winning bidder in the amount of $1,000 must be in the USAPA office by 1700 Wednesday, January 14, 2015 and the balance by certified cashier’s check by Wednesday, January 21, 2015.
The car is a 2009 Ford Taurus SE 4 Door Sedan with 30,000 miles in good condition.
All bids must be emailed to USAPAcarbid@usairlinepilots.org.
USAPA Communications
 
CactusPilot1 said:
You've got a big problem. Hey, go ahead ignore it.


Defendants authorized the use of, used, and continue to use USAPA
funds for purposes that do not constitute collective legal action on behalf of the pilot
group. Specifically, between September 16, 2014, and January 9, 2015, Defendants
expended USAPA funds to advance USAPAs position before the PAB that the West
Pilots should be denied separate representation in the seniority integration process
occasioned by the merger with American Airlines. USAPAs position before the PAB
advanced only the interests of the East Pilots (which includes Defendants here) at the
expense of the interests of the West Pilots. Accordingly, expenditures in furtherance of
this position were not collective in nature nor on behalf of the pilot group as a whole.
34. Since September 16, 2014, and continuing to the present, Defendants have
authorized the use of, used, and continue to use USAPA funds for the purpose of
advancing the seniority interests of only the East Pilots (including Defendants) at the
expense of the interests of the West Pilots (including Plaintiffs) in the Substantive SLI
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 12 of 19
13
Process. More specifically, on information and belief, Defendants have authorized the
use of, used, and continue to use USAPA funds to, inter alia , pay the fees of lawyers and
experts and to pay flight pay loss and expenses of East Pilots who are members of the
East Pilots Merger Committee, all of whom who will advance the East Pilots interest in
the Substantive SLI Process.
35. In correspondence dated December 4, December 23, December 31, January 9, and
January 20, attached to the Complaint as Exhibits 610, counsel for the West Pilots,
Marty Harper, further advised USAPA General Counsel Brian ODwyer of the National
Officers fiduciary duties to account for the funds in USAPAs treasury, to disburse those
funds to USAPAs membership, and to cease using USAPA funds in furtherance of
matters adverse to the West Pilots interests. Mr. Harper re-asserted Plaintiffs demands
for, inter alia , a full accounting of USAPAs treasury, a detailed list of what collective
legal actions Defendants relied upon in determining to defer dissolution, an immediate
distribution of USAPA funds that are in excess of those contemplated legal actions, a
specific accounting of what funds are needed to wind down USAPAs affairs, and an
immediate stop to the use of USAPA funds to support litigation and other legal action
adverse to the West Pilots interests. See id.
36. On February 13, 2015, Plaintiffs wrote Defendants reiterating the demands
previously made by Mr. Velez and Mr. Harper. (attached to Complaint as Exhibit 11.)
37. Despite being fully advised of Defendants fiduciary duties, Defendants failed to
accede to any of Plaintiffs and the West Pilots legitimate and reasonable demands.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 13 of 19
14
Consequently, Defendants have violated, and continue to violate, their fiduciary duties to
USAPAs members, including Plaintiffs.
FIRST CLAIM FOR RELIEF
(Breach of Fiduciary Duty Claim against USAPA National Officers Gary
Hummel, Stephen Bradford, Rob Streble, and Steve Smyser, and BPR Members
Robert Frear, Courtney Borman, Ronald Nelson, Paul DiOrio, Paul Music, John
Taylor, Joe Stein, Pete Dugstad, Jay Milkey, and Stephen Nathan.)
38. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate herein by reference the foregoing paragraphs 1
through 37.
39. As the National Officers of USAPA, Defendants Hummel, Bradford, Streble, and
Smyser as well as Defendant BPR members Frear, Borman, Nelson, DiOrio, Music,
Taylor, Stein, Dugstad, Milkey, and Nathan, are USAPA fiduciaries, obliged by section
501(a) of the LMRDA, to hold [USAPAs] money and property solely for the benefit of
[USAPA] and its members and expend the same in accordance with [USAPAs]
constitution and bylaws . . . . 29 U.S.C. § 501(a).
40. By expending USAPA funds after the decertification of USAPA as the exclusive
bargaining representative of US Airways pilots and after the appointment of a West Pilots
Merger Committee to represent the interest of the West Pilots in the Substantive SLI
Process in a manner that does not advance collective legal action on behalf of the pilot
group, Defendants violated their section 501(a) duties to hold USAPAs money solely
for the benefit of its members and to expend such monies only in accordance with
USAPAs constitution and bylaws.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 14 of 19
15
PRAYER FOR RELIEF
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Court:
(1) Order an accounting of USAPAs treasury from September 16, 2014, to the
present, including a full itemization of the value of the treasury as of September 16, 2014
(including any special assessment funds); monies paid in furtherance of any USAPA
legal action since September 16, 2014; USAPAs indebtedness as of September 16, 2014
(and any subsequently accrued debts); and an itemization of any funds reasonably
necessary to wind down the affairs of USAPA as a labor organization.
(2) Order the Defendants to pay restitution of the funds wrongfully expended.
(3) Preliminarily and permanently enjoin Defendants from further expending
any USAPA monies in furtherance of the Substantive SLI Process.
(4) Order Defendants to disburse immediately to USAPA members in
accordance with Article I, section III of its Constitution all funds remaining in its treasury
as of its decertification as an exclusive bargaining representative on September 16, 2014,
except such funds reasonably necessary for the collective action on behalf of the pilot
group and ordinary expenses of winding down.
(5) Award Plaintiffs their attorneys fees and costs for bringing this lawsuit
pursuant to 29 U.S.C. § 501(b
(6) Award Plaintiffs such other relief as the Court deems just.
Case 3:15-cv-00111-MOC-DCK Document 1 Filed 02/23/15 Page 15 of 19
16
 
 
Another Marty Monologue.  He has plenty more.  But APA is the one he should be watching out for.  
 
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