737 MAX seat pitch

[robbedagain]

I don't know about that dfw lately at least in our station LAA metal tends to run late for example the phx trip used to be LUS ran 95% on time or early since LAA took over its either early or its super late

 

[jack f]

Unfortunately, bigjets is right on. First and foremost, passengers want the lowest price, and will put up with almost any discomfort to get it. Mind you they won't do it silently or quietly, but they will do it. I can't tell you how many people I know who have sworn they will never fly Spirit again. Some of them swear that every single time they come home from a trip on Spirit.

Just goes to show you once again that Herb Kelleher had it right. He made it clear that he was selling you transportation from Point A to Point B, and if it wasn't too bumpy you got a glass of Coke and a bag of peanuts. The rest of us insisted on selling the experience of air travel. Now when they fly on us they still want that experience of air travel, but they want it at a Spirit/Southwest/etc price.

You're not really comparing SW to Spirit are you?

 

[jimntx]

If you go back and read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote, you will see a huge compliment to Southwest and to Herb Kelleher, the genius who founded Southwest.

Spirit tries to sell the cheapest ticket. Southwest sells a reasonably priced ticket that is not always the lowest price. But, they are not selling you dinner or anything else other than transportation from Point A to Point B, and they do that better than any other airline that ever existed. Seventeen straight years without a losing quarter (which Southwest did) has never been duplicated, nor will it be, in the airline industry.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I just love you people. You are in an industry that for the most part doesn't know how to make money unless the government allows you to collude in pricing, go through multiple bankrupticies to avoid paying your bills so you can start over and allows you to merge and after all that you hate your customers. I just flew from Philly to St Louis for over $600. Do you consider that cheap?

Do I think $600 is cheap?

You are flying in a high speed life support system that cost millions to purchase, millions to maintain, millions in fuel, parts are high cost due to exacting tolerances and government red tape, and it takes an army to support.

Now tell me, do YOU think $600 is cheap?.

 

[WeAAsles]

"Thus, More Room Throughout Coach became something a punch line among airline industry types when discussing bold but ultimately misguided marketing efforts. American had not only tossed seats off its planes, it had tossed revenue-producing assets, and got nothing in return for it. By trying to position itself as a more passenger-friendly carrier in hopes of drawing an elusive premium fare price from travelers American turned itself into an economic chump.

Now, with its flights launching, on average, with more than 80% of their seats occupied American is leading the industry in the opposite direction. It’s moving to pack more of us into each of its planes.

And ultimately it’s our fault.

For all our wailing and moaning about uncomfortable seats and the lack of leg room we collectively have proven – not only, but most noticeably via American’s failed More Room Throughout Coach experiment - that we won’t spend a dime more for an extra inch or two of space. But you can take it to the bank that we will complain loudly when someone takes that inch away from us"



https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...otix&partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#74f59f2b3d32

 

[WeAAsles]

I just love you people. You are in an industry that for the most part doesn't know how to make money unless the government allows you to collude in pricing, go through multiple bankrupticies to avoid paying your bills so you can start over and allows you to merge and after all that you hate your customers. I just flew from Philly to St Louis for over $600. Do you consider that cheap?

That depends how valuable you consider your time to be? The drive between Philly and St Louis is 13 hours not including rest stops. How much would you lose in expense (or convenience) had you either used your own car or rented one for the round trip?

Did you check what the price and time expense would be for either Amtrak or Greyhound?

You chose air travel because your time to you has value. So yes you should expect to pay more over other means available for that convenience of saving time.

I shop almost exclusively at Publix Supermarket. It's within walking distance to me and very convenient. So there I'm a frequent shopper or customer. Because of that I expect to be treated decently because I generate good revenue to that store. Occasionally I shop at Fresh Market. It's more expensive and less convenient but has a better quality of food. I don't shop there often so should I expect the same exact level of service I get at my local Publix? And because the food is better quality should I demand them to lower there prices? Or do I have the option of just not shopping there?

 

[WeAAsles]

I fly AA almost exclusively because I'm a hostage in Philly. SW doesn't charger $200 to change fight schedules and doesn't charge for the first two bags and they like there customers

So you fly AA almost exclusively for your convenience then actually. Again it's basically like your nearest Supermarket. I highly doubt you would consider moving from Philly so you can have your choice of air travel?

It never ceases to amaze me how one of the most incredible innovations of man in being able to fly through the air safely like a bird to many people has become like an expected cheap commodity or expectation like breathing air when I still think of it as an amazing privilege (Not necessarily experience though)

 

[jimntx]

[QUOTE="WeAAsles, post: 1264602, member: 13419"

Now, with its flights launching, on average, with more than 80% of their seats occupied American is leading the industry in the opposite direction. It’s moving to pack more of us into each of its planes.

And ultimately it’s our fault.

For all our wailing and moaning about uncomfortable seats and the lack of leg room we collectively have proven – not only, but most noticeably via American’s failed More Room Throughout Coach experiment - that we won’t spend a dime more for an extra inch or two of space. But you can take it to the bank that we will complain loudly when someone takes that inch away from us"



https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...otix&partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#74f59f2b3d32[/QUOTE]
Testify, Brother! The ones I particularly love to hear complain are the overweight people. That's our fault also. I had a woman passenger who was shall we say "full-figured" (actually obese, would be more accurate) who said to me that she had been flying AA for years and she was sick and tired of the fact that we were shrinking the size of the seats themselves, not just the pitch. At the time, we were on an MD-80 with 5 across seating in coach. When the MD-80 entered service with AA (probably 40 years ago...before my time) it had 5 across seating in coach. So why would we shrink the size of the seats? To widen the aisle?

 

[WeAAsles]

[QUOTE="WeAAsles, post: 1264602, member: 13419"

Now, with its flights launching, on average, with more than 80% of their seats occupied American is leading the industry in the opposite direction. It’s moving to pack more of us into each of its planes.

And ultimately it’s our fault.

For all our wailing and moaning about uncomfortable seats and the lack of leg room we collectively have proven – not only, but most noticeably via American’s failed More Room Throughout Coach experiment - that we won’t spend a dime more for an extra inch or two of space. But you can take it to the bank that we will complain loudly when someone takes that inch away from us"



https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...otix&partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#74f59f2b3d32

Testify, Brother! The ones I particularly love to hear complain are the overweight people. That's our fault also. I had a woman passenger who was shall we say "full-figured" (actually obese, would be more accurate) who said to me that she had been flying AA for years and she was sick and tired of the fact that we were shrinking the size of the seats themselves, not just the pitch. At the time, we were on an MD-80 with 5 across seating in coach. When the MD-80 entered service with AA (probably 40 years ago...before my time) it had 5 across seating in coach. So why would we shrink the size of the seats? To widen the aisle?[/QUOTE]


However, the big negative is that the rate of obesity in the United States is continuing its upward march. In 2015, 30.4% of Americans 20 and older said they were obese, up from 29.9% in 2014.
Although the 2015 rate is not significantly higher than the previous year's, it represents a continuation of a trend that has been going on since at least 1997, when researchers began using the current survey and when only 19.4% of Americans said they were obese.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/health/americans-health-obesity-diabetes/

 

[WeAAsles]

That's another issue entirely Jim. Because of non discrimination laws Airlines can't charge people because they're overweight even if each one of them on an Airplane does cost the Company in added fuel expense.

I've heard stories of all you can eat Chinese Buffets throwing these people out after time because they gorge themselves and certainly cause more of an expense than the business actually making a profit.

Unfortunately Airlines can't just say to these people "You go now, no come back" All they really can do is just sigh when they see them coming.

 

[eolesen]

"Thus, More Room Throughout Coach became something a punch line among airline industry types when discussing bold but ultimately misguided marketing efforts. American had not only tossed seats off its planes, it had tossed revenue-producing assets, and got nothing in return for it. By trying to position itself as a more passenger-friendly carrier in hopes of drawing an elusive premium fare price from travelers American turned itself into an economic chump."

And yet, cabin products like Delta Comfort, United Economy Plus and AA's Main Cabin Extra are all direct results of that flawed decision to roll out MRTC. United's choice to limited it to just a few rows is what ultimately struck the balance, but they never would have done that without AA using legroom as a marketing ploy.

 

[WeAAsles]

And yet, cabin products like Delta Comfort, United Economy Plus and AA's Main Cabin Extra are all direct results of that flawed decision to roll out MRTC. United's choice to limited it to just a few rows is what ultimately struck the balance, but they never would have done that without AA using legroom as a marketing ploy.

Well it is a copycat industry that continues to try and evolve with some ideas working and some that don't. And some ideas wind up working with a few tweeks here and there.

And you might not like the tweeks the Airlines are trying these days E but they are a direct result of what people are asking for with their wallets.

They can Politically try and correct any term you want. Call it Coach, Economy, Econony Plus, Comfort (Tall Latte when it's really a small freakin Coffee) but there will always be the need (desire) for Steerage in all modes of transportation.

"Steerage is the lower deck of a ship, where the cargo is stored above the closed hold. In the late 19th and early 20th century, steamship steerage decks were used to provide the lowest cost and lowest class of travel, such as for European immigrants to North America. With limited privacy and security, inadequate sanitary conditions, and poor food, steerage was often decried as inhumane, and was eventually replaced on ocean liners with "third class" cabins."

 

[eolesen]

Why wouldn't I like what the airlines are doing? The bonus check I got this year from the airline I work for was more than my first year's salary as an agent.

I do think less than 30" pitch is asking for trouble. Maybe if it was reserved for Main Cabin Minus only?

 

[WeAAsles]

Why wouldn't I like what the airlines are doing? The bonus check I got this year from the airline I work for was more than my first year's salary as an agent.

I do think less than 30" pitch is asking for trouble. Maybe if it was reserved for Main Cabin Minus only?

I've always thought more long term rather than short term. I'm glad you got a good bonus though and I hope the bonuses continue to come for a while at least. (I prefer direct wages myself)

And yes squeezing people in like sardines is asking for more and more trouble. Especially when they have to be paraded through the comfort set on their way back to 3 hours or plus of their own knees touching their chins.

But I can't continue to stress enough it's what many of them are choosing for themselves with their own wallets. Just glad I'm not in the direct line of customer ire when tempers explode in my job. Bags don't bark or bite.

 

[jimntx]

Glad I'm going to be retiring before too much longer. When pitch gets short, so do tempers. I neither desire to be a target nor a referee. File this one in the same drawer with the idea to allow telephone calls in flight.