A New Approach to Pilot Pay at US Airways
- Thread starter HogDriver
- Start date
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
OP
- Sep 2, 2002
- 64
- 21
- Thread Starter
- #79
I started this post to explore the posibilities and options for a fair and balanced approach to pilot pay at US for ALL pilots...East-West, Senior and Jr. The current system on the east has great gaps between all seats and aircraft. Is there a solution that closes the gaps, is affordable to the company so it stays healthy, and does not hurt pilots current pay or trigger another...wait for it...DFR?
I believe there can be an option B approach. It is in use at many other carriers with out the problems discussed here, however I do see it would be tricky to come up with two pay scales in the middle of all the other issues we are negotiating for. Tricky...but not impossible.
Thank you to those who offered insight and some hard numbers, and also to those with alternative approaches to changing our pay. It is hard to figure what the true numbers would be as we do not know the rates USAPA is aiming for with the new contract yet. That is why I am asking my reps to propose a motion and formally explore a plan B alongside the old plan A approach. Then a side by side hard comparison of the two plans can be shown and maybe even voted on going forward.
Other carriers have fairly Jr. pilots flying WB Int'l. We have one training standard...if you get on here and can't cut it then you probably shouldn't be flying Dom NB's either. There would be training issues as a shift to lifestyle vs. straight pay bidding would trigger change, but we have constant training right now. Down the road...(how far?) I think training would settle down below what we have now, saving the co. money. As for the differences between E/W and some group getting more up front...the older group would obviously get to the top of scales faster and have a larger raise to get there (but the east will have a larger gain anyway as the west have been paid more all this time and would get less a raise to come up to the new rates), but ALL pilots would get there as opposed to only SOME getting there under the old system. The younger pilots would actually make more money over the entire course of their career if done right.
My motivation for exploring this approach is to find a fair and balanced pay system for all our pilots, to take away the current environment of have- have-not, to restore our pay levels to that for which a professional, highly skilled and trained pilot deserves, and to instill unity in a very divided group.
A paradigm shift for sure...but if you think about it long enough, take out the BS, and look at it with all the right facts...I think it is a better way to go.
I believe there can be an option B approach. It is in use at many other carriers with out the problems discussed here, however I do see it would be tricky to come up with two pay scales in the middle of all the other issues we are negotiating for. Tricky...but not impossible.
Thank you to those who offered insight and some hard numbers, and also to those with alternative approaches to changing our pay. It is hard to figure what the true numbers would be as we do not know the rates USAPA is aiming for with the new contract yet. That is why I am asking my reps to propose a motion and formally explore a plan B alongside the old plan A approach. Then a side by side hard comparison of the two plans can be shown and maybe even voted on going forward.
Other carriers have fairly Jr. pilots flying WB Int'l. We have one training standard...if you get on here and can't cut it then you probably shouldn't be flying Dom NB's either. There would be training issues as a shift to lifestyle vs. straight pay bidding would trigger change, but we have constant training right now. Down the road...(how far?) I think training would settle down below what we have now, saving the co. money. As for the differences between E/W and some group getting more up front...the older group would obviously get to the top of scales faster and have a larger raise to get there (but the east will have a larger gain anyway as the west have been paid more all this time and would get less a raise to come up to the new rates), but ALL pilots would get there as opposed to only SOME getting there under the old system. The younger pilots would actually make more money over the entire course of their career if done right.
My motivation for exploring this approach is to find a fair and balanced pay system for all our pilots, to take away the current environment of have- have-not, to restore our pay levels to that for which a professional, highly skilled and trained pilot deserves, and to instill unity in a very divided group.
A paradigm shift for sure...but if you think about it long enough, take out the BS, and look at it with all the right facts...I think it is a better way to go.
Are you refuting my claim or not?
People that were at the ALPA meetings have told me that you didnt speak out about it when it was being discussed. That and the fact that you have never claimed otherwise tells me you did. Your last post here also tells me that you did. Instead of denying that you did it you make another attempt at deflection. (deleted)
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
So you take opinion and try to claim it's fact then finish up with insult. Why am I not surprised...
If you couldn't insult and attack you would be at a loss for words...
Jim
So you take opinion and try to claim it's fact then finish up with insult. Why am I not surprised...
If you couldn't insult and attack you would be at a loss for words...
Jim
Pumpkinhead. And you confuse fact and opinion.
You dressed up as the great pumpkin but you should have been a donkey.
There, I began with a fact and ended with an opinion or an insult, is that better?
LOS IS DOH plain and simple, bidding equip and pos by LOS is the "GOLD STANDARD" if it happens to AWA by fragmentation in the next 6 mos they will be screaming , especially CLEARDIRECT, hell you will hear him in outerspace, trust me the "WEST WILL BE SOLD " in the next transaction! MM!
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
LOL...you've been claiming that the sale of the west was right around the corner for a long time...why believe you now?
Jim
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
Probably because what's being proposed has to walk a fine line and almost by definition couldn't be industry standard at the top end. Otherwise, it's like DOH instead of the Nic - anything that favors the east at the expense of the west is a DFR suit waiting to be won. Since nearly all the east would be higher up on a LOS scale than most of the west, it wouldn't be hard to show that LOS-only pay scale(s) favored the east at the expense of the west.
Jim
Jim
Metroyet
Veteran
- Nov 1, 2008
- 2,571
- 5,664
Because it's a total waste of time. The East guys never seem to tire of living in The Land of Make Believe. Despite the abhorrent cost and self inflicted career murder.
I lost interest in it as soon as I saw it. Sorry you misprogammed your JNC negotiators, but you're going to have to live with the consequences. The courts will see to that.
