Afa Reaches Tentative Agreement

[abonny]

USA320,

You are more often wrong than right especially when premature...how many days ago did you say AFA had a TA? Worse though, you are an insult to your group as you are nothing more than a management shill, looking to cause division among the employees.

ALPA GAG (give away gang), whom you support, wanted a deal at any cost and that is what they got. Do not be small just because AFA and the flight attendants fought long and hard for the best deal possible rather than take just anything out of fear. AFA leaders rallied and promised CHAOS if any flight attendant contract is abrogated. AA pilots joined the flight attendants on march in DC but where were our own pilots? Maybe it is time for ALPA and yourself to realize you are LABOR NOT MANAGEMENT. Maybe it is time for YOU to stop dissing the other groups and instead try to find something in your own to support or be proud of.


Take this:

Approxx. 80% of flight attendants are at top of scale (14-years or above). Top of scale pay cut is only 8.42% NOT 9%. This is because AFA fought hard to keep $ in their members pockets TODAY and would NOT take less than AMW flight attendants at any pay step!

Company wanted AFA to sell juniors down river with a "B" and then a "C" scale...did NOT happen. Invols were protected.

Company wanted AFA to terminate DB plan making the statemement that the PBGC would cover them....AFA insisted on keeping their right to challenge a termination in court....they did NOT hand that right over without even so much as a fight or a membership vote.

AFA also protected IAM jobs and still received BIG value (read helped save pay) for doing pretty much what they already do today...see side letter.

AFA negotiating team obviously did their home work as they sought options in the event ALPA is successful in Dead Head grievance...see side letter.


ALPA senior pilots lost pension AND then lost 19 days of VAC while those in the middle lost less than 5...AFA noticed the inequity of managements 7-14-21 and fought hard to correct that inequity so all participated as equally as possible, and were STILL able to negotiate a better day rate of pay for 7 or more concecutive days than ALPA did!

Unlike ALPA's reserves, AFA reserves have ALL choices as they are NOT in buckets. Unike ALPA, AFA reserves did NOT get stuck with the 95-hour 285 rolling cap that will keep them from ever getting out of time! Unlike ALPA, AFA reserves recaptured some seniority for trip choices.

You can cherry pick to try and point out the bad, no one is saying there is not bad things in the deal...IT IS, after all, CONCESSIONARY!

But for a CONCESSIONARY deal...AFA Negotiating team did a bang up job and does not deserve your back door jibes about anything.

abonny

 

[Bud8EE]

USA320,

Tidy planes with a "side letter" that f/a will not interfere with utility stations in CBA.

Also, we did better than you on vacation, and day rate.
Also, we did better than you on wage reduction.
Also, we did better than you with our f/a reserve provisions.

OUR T/A DID NOT GET WORSE THAN BEFORE BK. Before BK, it was MUCH worse, and the 85% strike vote helped secure our deal....
THANKS TO THE RANK AND FILE.

[post="229527"][/post]​

USA320Pilot said it first here, wrong?

 

[700UW]

The Company and the Association further understand and agree that this Letter of Agreement has the effect of (1) modifying Section 30.F of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, and (2) eliminating Letter of Agreement #21, dated March 25, 2000, and as modified by the December 3, 2002 letter from Michael J. Minerva to Perry Hayes. This Letter of Agreement does not require any flight attendant to engage in any individual cabin cleaning duty where doing so violates the scope provision then-governing any other non-flight attendant who both is employed by US Airways, Inc. and represented by any other union. Flight Attendants, however, will be required to perform all of the cabin cleaning duties defined above even in instances where the Company has contracted vendor cleaners on duty.

 

[firstamendment]

First,

The proposal works if many take the "furlough package". All will move up and eventually the co. will "recall" the INVOLs to get their jobs back. There is no "second" pay scale, however the INVOLS and most junior will be displaced.


The entire committee worked to keep wages below 10%....mission accomplished.F/as now have to vote and decide whether they can live with these terms and these wages, and if they believe they have a future here at U.....

I give no recommendation "for or against". The f/as will decide.

[post="229526"][/post]​

Pitbull,
It appears my biggest concerns have been addressed. Congrats to the negotiating comitteee who worked hard and stayed tough, unlike ALPA. I did NOT want a C scale for returning furloughees and the res system needed some changes, all for which would have gotten a definite NO. I'm tired of pissing on the most junior, because the more the junior f/a's get pissed on, the closer I get to being pissed on.

I feel there will be a mass exodus of 55-60 years old f/a's. The 10K was enough for many, but the $300 a month till 65? Can you say buh bye?

 

[USAirBoyA330]

I agree 100% First......AFA did the best job they could with difficult circumstances. Overall the agreement looks just OK (but what can you expect) and it gives the people that want out a lovely parting gift.

 

[firstamendment]

The AFA TA states:

AIRCRAFT TIDYING - Increased to include all domestic stations and Nassau (NAS) following every flight segment except: transoceanic flight segments; non-transoceanic flight segments (except NAS); flight segments immediately preceding the RON of the aircraft; following a red-eye; or following any segment that originates or terminates west of Kansas City (MCI) in North America; tidying duties remain the same.

DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN - After the Defined Benefit Plan is frozen, or if the Plan is terminated by the Bankruptcy Court, a Defined Contribution Plan will replace the DB plan with an Employer Contribution of 3%. Such contributions will begin on January 1, 2008.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="229521"][/post]​

Hey USA320Pilot,

How about cherry picking this:

8.4% paycut vs. ALPA 30%.
Vacation snapback before end of contract...ALPA...NUTHIN'!!!
10K buyout with no uc....ALPA...NUTHIN'!!!
Early retirement incentive for those over 20 years senority age 55 and over...$300 a month until 65...HUGE incentive...alittle more than a bone...ALPA...NUTHIN'!!!

While you're captain on the emb-700 and and taking ANOTHER cut for that wonderful desperado contract, I will slide right up the senority ladder, as the 55-65 age group will be knocking down the doors to leave. Mark my words on that one.

But I'm sure you will have some other dribble to justify your hopeless attempt to prove you are right. Well, I have read the entire 62 pages and while not happy to give a dime back, our contract IS much better than ALPA's butcher job. Well, you are stuck with YOUR contract. You get what you negotiate. Please don't try to find fault in ours to make you feel better. It ain't gonna work. :down: :down:

Respectively and Regards,

First

 

[local 12 proud]

and then there was one union left..
IAM ..what will they do

[post="229477"][/post]​

[/quote CAVE just like the rest!

 

[USA320Pilot]

Abonny:

The AFA hit their cost cut target and changed different parts of their contract to meet their needs, such as no DC retirement plan payments for 3 years to lower the wage rate cut.

For example, the real cut to combined pay rates and DC retirement plan contributions are 12% per year for three years.

There is not a need for comparison of ALPA & AFA contracts because the Negotiating Committees (NC) selected different points of interest, but I agree the ALPA RC4 hurt the pilot group more than necessary.

For example, ALPA has a 10% DC plan annual contribution and the AFA no DC plan annual contribution for 3 years and 3% thereafter. Why? ALPA wants tax deferred dollars and AFA wants less of a pay cut now. That's a big deal with some pilot's obtaining around $20,000 per year in tax free retirement contributions. Furthermore, ALPA gets a $70 million lump sum payment in 2010 and 2011, which could be about $25,000 per pilot.

With the stage set for AFA DB retirement plan pension termination, especially with the PBGC supporting the action, and retiree health care changes, the AFA will provide US Airways with $157 million per year in cost cuts, which is dramatically more than the company's initial "ask".

What's too bad is that the F/A's could have made less of a concession if they had not taken a "hardline" approach". Nonetheless, there is nothing that can be done about the past and the only thing people can do is move forward.

I congratulate the AFA MEC and NC for obtaining a new TA and avoiding "imposition".

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[firstamendment]

Abonny:

but I agree the ALPA RC4 hurt the pilot group more than necessary.



What's too bad is that the F/A's could have made less of a concession if they had not taken a "hardline" approach". Nonetheless, there is nothing that can be done about the past and the only thing people can do is move forward.


Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="229579"][/post]​

You are a piece of work. Nobody in this thread has agreed with you about ANYTHING, mustless the ALPA RC4. AND, the contract now IS much better than what was being forced down our throats. Keep on snapping your heels together and just keep saying, I'm right, they're wrong until somebody actually believes it. Speaking of, where IS US Fliboy. Awefully quiet!!

I can live with my contract. I would hate to have yours...oh I forgot, it isn't mine, so enjoy your 30% cut.

 

[blueoceans]

From what I've heard, the tentative agreement does not treat all members fairly (ex. voluntary furloughs, retirees). If there is one thing a union should do, it's provide fair/equal treatment to every single member. If not, it's a miscarriage of justice (a la ALPA).

 

[USA320Pilot]

First:

A $157 million cut is a $157 million cut. I am gratified that you can live with your contract. By the way, where in ALPA's contract does it say the pilot's took a 30% cut?

Moreover, are you sure you would "hate to have your (contract)". What empoloyee group has more pay and retirement by about 400% top end? Who are the highest paid union employees in the company, by a long shot?

Regardless, I congratulate the AFA for obtaining their higher cost cut target, even if it is about $40 million per year greater than the company's opening offer.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[firstamendment]

From what I've heard, the tentative agreement does not treat all members fairly (ex. voluntary furloughs, retirees). If there is one thing a union should do, it's provide fair/equal treatment to every single member. If not, it's a miscarriage of justice (a la ALPA).

[post="229587"][/post]​

I know what you are saying, but in any concessionary contract, somebody loses. If alot of f/a's take the 10k and retirement incentive, this sucker will work and make many happy, outweighing the bad. We shall see.

 

[fr8tmastr]

320, now you are gloating about the fact that the top tier makes 400% more than anyone else? Including your brothers at the bottom of the heap at the division. You are some class act. Ask a family member to buy you a copy of "how to make friends and influence people" for Christmas, maybe it will help

 

[BillLumbergh]

Same comment applies here. Folks need to put the attitude in check.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Fr8tmastr:

I take no special pleasure in seeing people take cuts. In fact, if the unions had participated earlier in the process, the cuts would have been less. Who on this board lobbied for that to occur?

Firstamendment attacked me and made some inaccurate statements, thus I provided more accurate information. By the way, can you tell me where the pilot's tookm a "30% cut"?

It's not gloating and the whole thing is difficult for all.

Regards,

USA320Pilot