AFA topic 9/28-11/1 Do NOT make it personal

[N903AW]

Talking to a union involved person (not an elected official) their impression of talks was that it would be another 6 to 9 months until an agreement would be reached but in the same breath said that we would have to wait for the front end.

How is this possible? It would be great to reach an agreement but is it possible w/o the pilots?

A second question is: do the west and east vote to accept the agreement on an equal basis or is it a majority vote of all members?

I think it would be possible to reach an agreement without the pilots, but in order to do so I think the East Flight Attendant group would probably need to forgo the "me too" clause in your current contract that keeps you bound to your pilots. I am not sure if the pilots Transition Agreement has any stipulations that would prohibit Flight Attendants from being able to work all aircraft regardles of who is operating the aircraft in the Flight Deck.

In regards to your second question, per AFA Constitution and Bylaws, the vote to ratify a contract would be based on a majority vote of 50% + 1 of the combined seniority list.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

I think it would be possible to reach an agreement without the pilots, but in order to do so I think the East Flight Attendant group would probably need to forgo the "me too" clause in your current contract that keeps you bound to your pilots. I am not sure if the pilots Transition Agreement has any stipulations that would prohibit Flight Attendants from being able to work all aircraft regardles of who is operating the aircraft in the Flight Deck.

In regards to your second question, per AFA Constitution and Bylaws, the vote to ratify a contract would be based on a majority vote of 50% + 1 of the combined seniority list.

The East does not have to and will not forgo anything in this agreement. What works on the east or at other airlines will not work here especially in hubs like PHL. Management continually shows they are a one base minded commuter airline and if anyone thinks they could successfully mach up and swap out front end and back end crews with the operation they run, think again. Can you imagine PHL in weather? The front is here and the back is not? The re crews and havoc would boggle the mind. Some of us have been there and have no intention of separating from the pilots so they can West Coast turn me. They could very well move forward if they would just agree that we have the same protections as the pilots in the new AFA combined contract. Nothing stopping them from negotiating that and moving forward. I still say separating is a very unwise idea for our operation but there is always the alternative.

 

[N903AW]

The East does not have to and will not forgo anything in this agreement. What works on the east or at other airlines will not work here especially in hubs like PHL. Management continually shows they are a one base minded commuter airline and if anyone thinks they could successfully mach up and swap out front end and back end crews with the operation they run, think again. Can you imagine PHL in weather? The front is here and the back is not? The re crews and havoc would boggle the mind. Some of us have been there and have no intention of separating from the pilots so they can West Coast turn me. They could very well move forward if they would just agree that we have the same protections as the pilots in the new AFA combined contract. Nothing stopping them from negotiating that and moving forward. I still say separating is a very unwise idea for our operation but there is always the alternative.

Have you given thought to the fact that if the "me too" clause is eliminated that there would be a need for more FA hiring required to support the operation? This, in turn, would allow those who have been on Reserve for years to potentially become blockholders. In addition, it allows for increased single-day credit flying for all FAs.

As it stands now, because we don't have "me too" out West, our FAs have the ability to do 10-11 Credit Hour two-leg turns from PHX to the East Coast that leave mid-morning and are back home by mid-evening. Two of these one day turns in a week and we can easily accumulate 80+ hours for the month and never have to overnight in a hotel.

Of course, we have pretty much resigned ourselves to the fact that a large number of our counterparts on the East are set in their ways and unreceptive to anything that might be "new" and might actually benefit them. Perfect example is the high number of costly inadvertent slide deployments that are always (over 95%) on East aircraft because the crewmembers who "know better" refuse to adopt a procedure that has been proven (by the West) to work.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Most of us on the East have little interest in doing West or East coast 10 hour turn flights with no rest seat. It's called experience and a contract that took 40 years to build. AW has never been through a merger until now and had one base. Ask PI gals what they think of separating they way this operation is run. One snow storm and the whole deck of cards comes down. This operation is run like crap with the East crews together and you want to separate? As for Slide Deployments, if you actually do the research they have gone up since the west implemented the NASA concoction of Monitor and Challenge. It's overly complicated and stupid. I say we go to the other airlines, adopt their procedure and be done. Blow a slide your gone for 30 days. Second and your toast. Treat people like Kindercare instead of adults you get kindergarten actions.

 

[aredeeyou22]

Have you given thought to the fact that if the "me too" clause is eliminated that there would be a need for more FA hiring required to support the operation? This, in turn, would allow those who have been on Reserve for years to potentially become blockholders. In addition, it allows for increased single-day credit flying for all FAs.

I see it the other way. If we lose the "me-too" clause, we will actually be over staffed because FA's will be able to fly longer days. They are currently restricted by the pilots 8 hour flying day.

Of course, we have pretty much resigned ourselves to the fact that a large number of our counterparts on the East are set in their ways and unreceptive to anything that might be "new" and might actually benefit them. Perfect example is the high number of costly inadvertent slide deployments that are always (over 95%) on East aircraft because the crewmembers who "know better" refuse to adopt a procedure that has been proven (by the West) to work.

As far as the "East won't try anything new" smear, I again disagree. I know MANY of the East FA's, myself included, that would LOVE 11 hour one day turns to the opposite coast. Frankly, 14 hour international 3 day trips to Dublin and 13 hour E190 3 days are a waste of my time. Just wait until the PSA girls can bid into PHX, they'll eat up those 11 hour JFK turns like candy, especially when they can fly in from LAX or SAN in the morning and make it home that night! Enjoy them while you can.

As far as ISD's are concerned, who is telling you that we have not adopted the procedure? While I think it is ridiculous, I have been doing it. I wouldn't judge a whole group on the ISD subject; the same thing could happen to you tomorrow.

 

[safety stud]

There is and will never be a situation where AFA will give up the ME-TOO clause to apease the pilot group. Our CBA is our CBA and will not be used as a barganing chip for ANY group. That said, the M-T also has it's draw-backs and fine points. Any elimination of the M-T would cost the company dearly, and they know this. So for the pilot group to assume or should I say ASSume we would give this up is a load of crap. I will not give it up to that group for any reason other than to promote something better. The pilot group never came to AFA when the company asked for give backs during both BKs. The M-T caused the flight attendant group to give up the highest percentage than anyone.... Nearly 47%.....

So Bottom line don't ask me for a handout....

You aint gettin one...

Just my opinion...

 

[N903AW]

Just wait until the PSA girls can bid into PHX, they'll eat up those 11 hour JFK turns like candy, especially when they can fly in from LAX or SAN in the morning and make it home that night! Enjoy them while you can.

When the East numbers allow the "Me Too" clause to remain in the contract, the PSA girls will have to starve because there won't be any 11 hour JFK turns to gobble up. One leg from PHX to JFK and essentially you're done for the day. What a waste.

The PSA girls are welcome to come to Phoenix, seniority and all, because I have yet to meet one that I didn't like. They have wonderful personalities and would be an excellent fit in our domicile.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

So we should give up all the protections of the Me-Too or not build them into the new AFA contract so a few of the top Senior people can bid high time turns? There will not be that many high time trips and they will go to 30 year and over gals. I know on the East we have sat through 25 years of Senior driven contracts with a trickle down theory and this time it just is not going to fly. We have to help out all levels of seniority. AFA really needs to focus on duty/pairing rigs instead of working us into the ground all rooster fighting for a few high time turns. That's like the AUA 2 day trip worth 18 hours last year. Great trip but who flew it? 35 years to touch it.

 

[LCC_#1]

So we should give up all the protections of the Me-Too or not build them into the new AFA contract so a few of the top Senior people can bid high time turns? There will not be that many high time trips and they will go to 30 year and over gals. I know on the East we have sat through 25 years of Senior driven contracts with a trickle down theory and this time it just is not going to fly. We have to help out all levels of seniority. AFA really needs to focus on duty/pairing rigs instead of working us into the ground all rooster fighting for a few high time turns. That's like the AUA 2 day trip worth 18 hours last year. Great trip but who flew it? 35 years to touch it.

ME SCREWED must go NOW!! If we are that GD weak, roll over and die!! Wewill be just fine without the dysfunctional pilot group!!

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Weak? Weak are over half the people here that can't take 5 minutes to vote. Weak would be the a large portion of the CLT group that rolls over every time at a compensation raise waived like a bone. What people fail to grasp is that's it's not about staying with the pilots, it's about keeping the contract provisions/protections that we fall under. We place those in our contract by themselves I will be happy to separate. So lets do this, name the pros and cons you think Me-Too Provides the AFA East group. While there are pros and drawbacks I bet one side of the sword is a lot sharper than the other.

 

[N965VJ]

The PSA girls are welcome to come to Phoenix,

Mr. Blockholder States-------> Is PHX opening up for transfers?

Im not looking forward to another winter of WALKING thru the employe lot and getting SLUSH all over my black Reebocks.

only Stating opinnions.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Mr. Blockholder States-------> Is PHX opening up for transfers?

Im not looking forward to another winter of WALKING thru the employe lot and getting SLUSH all over my black Reebocks.

only Stating opinnions.

A PSA flight attendant in Reebocks? Show me that I will show you a Polar Bear in PHX on a 113 degree day. Try nine inch stilettos

 

[iheartairbus]

Is the east ETB as dry as the west's.... out here in PHX you are lucky enough to get a sh*tty 2 day w/ 5 legs each day.... it's bad.. just curious if you wanna pick up out there if you can manage to get trips?

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Most of us want to fly 85 to 95 hours at a good pay rate, with decent work rules and go home! Like we used to have. The reserves are sick of picking up trips on days off to make the mortgage and block holders are sick of flying dog trips meant for robots. The East seems to want something totally different than the West and even if they made 10 hour one days face facts, they would be few and far between. The top 1% would gobble them up. Willing to wager the farm on that hope you may hold a block of one? The naivete of some flight attendants is astonishing.

 

[flybynite]

Who in the hell wants 10 hour 1 days? I don't know of anyone begging for that. Think again.