Fleet Service topic 9/28-10/11

[cltrat]

while I agree with DOH ( the people it would affect are ahead of me either way ) just because monetarily it is not an issue to the company ,you can bet they are jackass enough to not be willing to change it without wanting something in return

 

[roabilly]

Awlright…

I been thinkin’ ‘bout this angle... If my… or (your) seniority classification date is actually… your ADJUSTED Seniority Classification Date, I feel that a grievance is in order. The CBA calls for Classification Date Seniority for integration purposes.

Let’s review the language in the Transition Agreement. First look at attachment C
(IAM FLEET SENIORITY PROCEDURE)

1)The seniority lists of America West Fleet Service Employees and US Airways Fleet Service Employees will be integrated in a fair and equitable manner in accordance with Section 3 of the Allegany-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

3)The Company and the Union agree that integration of seniority lists will be based on an employee’s date of entry into his/her classification as defined in the collective bargaining agreement covering each respective classification on the merged US Airways. The Company and the Union agree that this methodology complies with the requirements of paragraphs 1 and 2 above.

Now... let’s move from the transition Agreement to the CBA… If you review Article 7 in the CBA, specifically section A, lines 6 through 9, you will find that previous adjustments to classification seniority will remain in place… but… after the effective date of this agreement there will be NO adjustments to Date of Hire Seniority.

Now let’s look at the Transition Language… above… again... The seniority lists of America West Fleet Service Employees and US Airways Fleet Service Employees will be integrated in a fair and equitable manner!

Ok… how is it "fair and equitable" if your agreement calls for seniority adjustments to a senior group of employees, while vowing to discontinue adjustments for more junior employees? Hmmm…

This is a clear violation of the "Fair and Equitable" as well as the "date of entry language" if nothing else… Thus… this shall… and will be grieved!

 

[NevadaHP]

my personal opinion is that you cant take seniority away from west employees that they have had for years, due to alleghenay mowhawk provisions, the only way this could be solved is to give "east" employees their DOH seniority. However Im not clear on if any of those were FSE or CSA employees. but I feel the majority of the gripe is between employees who were given 1/2 seniority for time served as P/T employees.

I would like to shed light in that area a little, that west emplyees hired in like 95/96 or even years earlier that were hired as Temp employees and not given DOH seniority. so they have lost too, not nearly as many as "east" employees however.

Im not enligtened on how the employees were given only 1/2 seniority for P/T service, whether it was due to contract negotiations or company policy.

However, my personal feeling after this last contract has been signed is that, if FSE want certain seniority restored they should file a grievance and let the union and company settle it, if any shenanigans took place with the RC regime it will be brought to light. If any other seniority issues are not settled hopefully they will be in the next contract so we can put this to rest and move onto bigger issues, like insurance, and outsourcing.

 

[mike33]

Roa

I don't agree that P/T only got 1/2 seniority, but that was a contractual issue years ago? Was it not?

1)The seniority lists of America West Fleet Service Employees and US Airways Fleet Service Employees will be integrated in a fair and equitable manner in accordance with Section 3 of the Allegany-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

I think the lists of each airline where made up before the agreement weren't they? I am in possesion of an HP list from 2007 or so. They use Bid date/Longevity date and Hire Date. Their list was theirs and ours was ours.

RC screwed up our list for years and now we pay. Yes it is time to clean it up and do right by all. Both lists travelled different paths to get to where they are and now they are put together as they came. ND08 I believe will settle this once and for all sometime. If not for the sake of Peace because we are one but because there could be another Merger soon and we need to be prepared.

 

[roabilly]

Roa

I don't agree that P/T only got 1/2 seniority, but that was a contractual issue years ago? Was it not?

1)The seniority lists of America West Fleet Service Employees and US Airways Fleet Service Employees will be integrated in a fair and equitable manner in accordance with Section 3 of the Allegany-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

I think the lists of each airline where made up before the agreement weren't they? I am in possesion of an HP list from 2007 or so. They use Bid date/Longevity date and Hire Date. Their list was theirs and ours was ours.

RC screwed up our list for years and now we pay. Yes it is time to clean it up and do right by all. Both lists travelled different paths to get to where they are and now they are put together as they came. ND08 I believe will settle this once and for all sometime. If not for the sake of Peace because we are one but because there could be another Merger soon and we need to be prepared.

“33â€â€¦

I don’t recall ever citing the “one half†accrual formula in any of my posts! (I even checked 'um) None the less… regardless of what formulas were used for seniority adjustments… the problem ultimately lays with the failure of both the Company, and the Union to fairly, and equitably integrate seniority… period!

This is not even about Date of Hire… It’s about getting awarded your proper Classification Date, without adjustments… to accurately reflect the date an employee actually entered his/her classification.

I feel that there is significant supporting language in the Transition Agreement to successfully argue this grievance to arbitration… and… I intend to do so.

 

[Speedbird1]

“33â€â€¦

I don’t recall ever citing the “one half†accrual formula in any of my posts! (I even checked 'um) None the less… regardless of what formulas were used for seniority adjustments… the problem ultimately lays with the failure of both the Company, and the Union to fairly, and equitably integrate seniority… period!

This is not even about Date of Hire… It’s about getting awarded your proper Classification Date, without adjustments… to accurately reflect the date an employee actually entered his/her classification.

I feel that there is significant supporting language in the Transition Agreement to successfully argue this grievance to arbitration… and… I intend to do so.

Right on Roabilly...........This issue is cost neutral to the company. Their stance is it's an internal union issue to be resolved within the union. That's why they gave us 90 days to revise this and get it right......I want all members, East and West, to get every minute of seniority possible. This will benefit us all in a future merger, which is very likely.

 

[mike33]

“33â€â€¦

I don’t recall ever citing the “one half†accrual formula in any of my posts! (I even checked 'um) None the less… regardless of what formulas were used for seniority adjustments… the problem ultimately lays with the failure of both the Company, and the Union to fairly, and equitably integrate seniority… period!

I guess I wasn't too clear and never meant to insinuate you said it but it was there in years past and it was a general comment. DOH should be used but somewhere we got Class date/Adj date and that needs to be corrected.

Mike

 

[necigrad]

Class and adjusted dates have their place, but it's a very specific place. It should only apply to transfers from a non fleet department or personal leaves of absense. All persons that didn't have something like that should have an adjusted or class date identical to DOH.

 

[roabilly]

I guess I wasn't too clear and never meant to insinuate you said it but it was there in years past and it was a general comment. DOH should be used but somewhere we got Class date/Adj date and that needs to be corrected.

Mike

Correct “33â€￾…

If not DOH… at least an accurate Classification Entry Date!

P.S. No offense taken Brother…

 

[roabilly]

Class and adjusted dates have their place, but it's a very specific place. It should only apply to transfers from a non fleet department or personal leaves of absense. All persons that didn't have something like that should have an adjusted or class date identical to DOH.

Grad... Yew right ontha money!

Adjustments should be made... only.... in non-classification time worked outside of the Fleet Scope, or leaves of absense!

In contrast... adjustments should NOT be made to your classification, based on your soft ball prowess!

 

[mike33]

Class and adjusted dates have their place, but it's a very specific place. It should only apply to transfers from a non fleet department or personal leaves of absense. All persons that didn't have something like that should have an adjusted or class date identical to DOH.

It's called VOLLUNTARY separation. I agree but some years ago agents were adj due to furloughs and such. If you didn't stay F/T and Xfer but stayed P/T then you lost time. This is INVOLLUTARY and all involluntary adj should be honored with DOH. How do you get to that point within this contract?

 

[roabilly]

Not this ol' bird....I got ZERO credit for my part-time service....a big fat ZERO....those of us hired before May 1, 1979 got nada for their part-time servce.

Another great USAir decision.

FAN... this is very common place for Piedmont Airlines at the time, and thus US now... Juss look at tha current roster... 'n report back to this forum with tha actual number of 5/1/79 dates you can find on tha list! Yew ain't gottah hair... if yahh don't do it! I challenge any, and all other takers!

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Roabilly you have a PM.

 

[NevadaHP]

attention all LAS employees, rumor is BC will be out NOV 1. this shall make everyone very happy in LAS. WOOOOO HOOOOOOO

 

[Knobeast]

Right on!!! I wonder if the petition had any thing to do with it? He's the worst I've seen in 25yrs!