oldiebutgoody
Veteran
Before everyone gets all worked up again, remember the old adage by the great philosopher Ron White: "You Can't Fix Stupid" :blink:
ALPA BOS F/o Rep. Update - June 25
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Ardenian
Advanced
"You Can't Fix Stupid"
And boy, is USA320 really stupid!
Those of us that know him at US Airways have seen him in action. He runs away from every pilot that tries to talk to him face to face, then runs home to hide behind his computer, all while making up stories about how he knows everything going on at HQ!
I have heard stories about him and Siegel talking on the Shuttle, and then Siegel picking him up at his LGA crashpad and taking him to lunch. Does the term "dupe" sound about right?
"You Can't Fix Stupid"
And boy, is USA320 really stupid!
Those of us that know him at US Airways have seen him in action. He runs away from every pilot that tries to talk to him face to face, then runs home to hide behind his computer, all while making up stories about how he knows everything going on at HQ!
I have heard stories about him and Siegel talking on the Shuttle, and then Siegel picking him up at his LGA crashpad and taking him to lunch. Does the term "dupe" sound about right?
"You Can't Fix Stupid"
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
This is consistent with what I have said here many times. I have spoken with people on my jump seat, in the LGA parking lot, and other places who know him personally. They ALL roll their eyes at the mention of his name. He is not well liked by his peers.
------------------------------
USA320,
I did not answer your question because the subject is irrelevant, as are you.
Now back to the entertainment...
- Thread Starter
- #94
767jetz:
I find it interesting is that as an United employee that you come over to the US Airways board, spread misinformation, refuse to answer questions, and will not acknowledge that US Airways was negotiating to buy UAL assets.
Does the thought of your company selling assets that painful you have become irrational?
Get over it. The former US Airways Chairman of the Board and the News Media reported Project Minnow.
When would now be a good time to grow up?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
I find it interesting is that as an United employee that you come over to the US Airways board, spread misinformation, refuse to answer questions, and will not acknowledge that US Airways was negotiating to buy UAL assets.
Does the thought of your company selling assets that painful you have become irrational?
Get over it. The former US Airways Chairman of the Board and the News Media reported Project Minnow.
When would now be a good time to grow up?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Harry Callahan
Veteran
This is consistent with what I have said here many times. I have spoken with people on my jump seat, in the LGA parking lot, and other places who know him personally. They ALL roll their eyes at the mention of his name. He is not well liked by his peers.
------------------------------
USA320,
I did not answer your question because the subject is irrelevant, as are you.
Now back to the entertainment...
767jetz, it's the same here in CLT just mention his name in sked !
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Not surprising at all. I've heard that before.
-----------------
UASs320,
It is you who spreads misinformation, as evidenced by all the posts in this forum by countless people. (No need for me to even get involved.) You get clobbered by your co-workers, and then lash out at others to make yourself feel better.
As I said, you and your questions are irrelevant. I find no need to debate endlessly, something that never even happened.
Your OPINIONS are well known, as are mine. It is also well known by all that I told you over and over that none of those things would ever become reality, regardless of the discussions that took place, and aspirations of others. And I was right... much to your chagrin. This seems to be something YOU have a hard time coming to terms with and could explain your hostility, and the fact that you keep regurgitating the same thing endlessly.
But since you insist on pushing the issue, I will correct your misrepresentation ONE LAST TIME. I NEVER said that discussions did not take place. It was the direction of those discussions, and the probability of such discussions ever unfolding the way you envisioned that I disputed. And in the end I was right! Now get over it. No one cares to hear your back-pedaling or believes it for that matter.
Now can we get back to the entertainment and the subject at hand?...
Cosmo
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 840
- 0
USA320Pilot:
I've tried to stay out of this "debate" but your one-sided view of events demands a response.
1.) Did Bronner and Siegel want to purchase United assets? According to press reports, yes.
2.) Was that desire reported in the media under the so-called "Project Minnow" name? Yes.
3.) Did United ever sell any of its assets to US Airways? No.
4.) Did United ever seriously entertain the idea of selling any of its assets to US Airways? No.
5.) Have you EVER offered any REAL proof whatsoever that United was contemplating the sale of any assets to US Airways? The answer to this is a resounding NO!
To summarize: Yes, the leaders of US Airways were apparently interested in acquiring some or all of United's assets, but United simply wasn't selling. No amount of newspaper articles or your repeated ad nauseum references to a UCT/ICT changes that fact!
PITbull
Veteran
I am quite surprised that there was even a discussion in the Exec suites regarding a "project Minnow"....Why? Because, when I personally spoke with Dr. Bonehead Bronner at a meeting in CLT March of 2004, he was not interested in putting anymore money into USAirways as told by him, and before Siegel was fired ONE MONTH LATER...APRIL, and Lakefield (who too, was in that room) became CEO.
Bronner said he would only consider putting more money into USAirways IF labor coughed up $1 billion in concessions. It took ANOTHER BK to extract that... And as we all know, USAirways was looking to liquidate (as reported in the paper and quoted by Dr. Bonehead Bronner, himself in Aug. 2004 PGH Post Gazette, Dan Fitzpatrick and Steve Holvonik, PGH Tribune).
So, I don't know where the hell A320 or anyone gets that Bronner was looking to SERIOUSLY invest more money and add to his already lost investment at USAirways. RSA shareholders would have crucified the dumb guy! Within 6 months of our emerging from BK#1, U was looking to race back in again into BK. If there was any pipe-dream retorhic behind closed doors it was only to LURE THE PILOTS TO COUGH UP MORE CASH...LIKE $300 MORE MILLION BY OCT. 2004. The only investors U had was LABOR, cause Dr. Bonehead was looking to exit stage left...and as evidenced TODAY, HE IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND REGARDING ANY MONIES OR INVESTMENT IN LCC.
Buying any assets from United would have taken an act of God as THE INVESTOR...BECAUSE U WAS GOING OVER A CLIFF BY DEC. OF 2004!!! And if there were no merger for investors to throw some money at, U and any so called assets they would have had would have gone over that cliff as well.
HOW I KNOW...I HAD A GD FRONT ROW SEAT AT THE CIRCUS!!!
Stupid is...as stupid says.
PS: And one more bit of factual info...THE USAIRWAYS UNSECURED CREDITORS...WHICH I HAD A SEAT ON HAD ABSOLUTELY NO, ZERO, ZILTCH, NADDA WORD,HINT, WHISPER, RUMOR, DISCUSSION ON ANY ASSET UAL BUYING.
Bronner said he would only consider putting more money into USAirways IF labor coughed up $1 billion in concessions. It took ANOTHER BK to extract that... And as we all know, USAirways was looking to liquidate (as reported in the paper and quoted by Dr. Bonehead Bronner, himself in Aug. 2004 PGH Post Gazette, Dan Fitzpatrick and Steve Holvonik, PGH Tribune).
So, I don't know where the hell A320 or anyone gets that Bronner was looking to SERIOUSLY invest more money and add to his already lost investment at USAirways. RSA shareholders would have crucified the dumb guy! Within 6 months of our emerging from BK#1, U was looking to race back in again into BK. If there was any pipe-dream retorhic behind closed doors it was only to LURE THE PILOTS TO COUGH UP MORE CASH...LIKE $300 MORE MILLION BY OCT. 2004. The only investors U had was LABOR, cause Dr. Bonehead was looking to exit stage left...and as evidenced TODAY, HE IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND REGARDING ANY MONIES OR INVESTMENT IN LCC.
Buying any assets from United would have taken an act of God as THE INVESTOR...BECAUSE U WAS GOING OVER A CLIFF BY DEC. OF 2004!!! And if there were no merger for investors to throw some money at, U and any so called assets they would have had would have gone over that cliff as well.
HOW I KNOW...I HAD A GD FRONT ROW SEAT AT THE CIRCUS!!!
Stupid is...as stupid says.
PS: And one more bit of factual info...THE USAIRWAYS UNSECURED CREDITORS...WHICH I HAD A SEAT ON HAD ABSOLUTELY NO, ZERO, ZILTCH, NADDA WORD,HINT, WHISPER, RUMOR, DISCUSSION ON ANY ASSET UAL BUYING.
- Thread Starter
- #99
PITBull:
M&A Activity between US Airways and United has been on and off many times.
It is my understanding that Bronner's intention to fund a transaction was inbetween US Airways' two bankruptcy's. From US Airways' perspective for the deal to proceed United would have needed to default on its DIP financing and if the Iraqi War or SARS had lasted longer that would have likely happened.
Remember during that year Bronner made his comments to the news media in February.
The last M&A activity between the parties that I know of happened in February 2005 when United executives flew to CCY only to have Bruce Lakefield reject anothe potential deal. According to US Airways Captain Ken Newberry, who flew on a Shuttle flight and sat one row away from Jake Brace and another exeuctive (I believe it was Doug Hacker), Lakefield rejected a plea by United to do a corporate transaction similar in scope to US Airways - America West and instead US Airways' CEO selected the Tempe-based company for its marriage partner.
By the way, since you had a "so called" front row seat were you ever briefed on "Project Minnow"?
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
M&A Activity between US Airways and United has been on and off many times.
It is my understanding that Bronner's intention to fund a transaction was inbetween US Airways' two bankruptcy's. From US Airways' perspective for the deal to proceed United would have needed to default on its DIP financing and if the Iraqi War or SARS had lasted longer that would have likely happened.
Remember during that year Bronner made his comments to the news media in February.
The last M&A activity between the parties that I know of happened in February 2005 when United executives flew to CCY only to have Bruce Lakefield reject anothe potential deal. According to US Airways Captain Ken Newberry, who flew on a Shuttle flight and sat one row away from Jake Brace and another exeuctive (I believe it was Doug Hacker), Lakefield rejected a plea by United to do a corporate transaction similar in scope to US Airways - America West and instead US Airways' CEO selected the Tempe-based company for its marriage partner.
By the way, since you had a "so called" front row seat were you ever briefed on "Project Minnow"?
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
PITbull
Veteran
320,
The unsecured creditors..at no time...had such a briefing.
Not even a rumor floated with the exception coming from this forum from you.
Regardless of what was being told to you, from the war commencement March of 2003 through U emerging from BK March of 2003 - Siegel asking for more concession by Sept. of 2003 - my meeting with Dr. Bonehead in March of 2004 - August of 2004 when U was on the cliff for liquidation and than Sept. 2004 BK #2 - the 21% 1113e motion, 1113c motion and 1114 motion inf Dec. of 2004 - the Chritstmas meltdown, and then the announcement of a rumored merger with AWA Early March, 2005...there was never, ever any mention to AFA...blatantly, overtly, covertly, or behind any closed doors that U was looking for UAL assets, if UAL missed any of their DIP.
U was busy looking for investors and conjuring up some BS on a synergistic merger with some regional carrier...the EXECS were looking for their payout, not buying UAL assets. Every month since spring of 2002-Sept. emergence from BK#2 2005, U's operation was crippled. Hell, the only reason the airline operated at all is because the rank and file stayed focused without any leadership for those 4 years!
In fact, at one point U couldn't even pay the AIG for Workers Comp premium, that was extended. I don't believe for one second that U had anyone interested in buying UAL assets when U might have not been here from month to month to even operate. Nope..no siree!
Hell, U was in BK twice and was on the verge of missing their numbers every single quarter without extensions from the ATSB.
Someone has not been forthright with you all those years you posted on a UCT rumor. THEY WANTED YOUR GROUP TO COUGH UP MONEY TO SECURE YOUR JOBS WITH RUMORS OF AN ASSET BUY.
Most of the pilots who were stupid enough to fall for such falsehoods gave up most of their livilihoods.
The unsecured creditors..at no time...had such a briefing.
Not even a rumor floated with the exception coming from this forum from you.
Regardless of what was being told to you, from the war commencement March of 2003 through U emerging from BK March of 2003 - Siegel asking for more concession by Sept. of 2003 - my meeting with Dr. Bonehead in March of 2004 - August of 2004 when U was on the cliff for liquidation and than Sept. 2004 BK #2 - the 21% 1113e motion, 1113c motion and 1114 motion inf Dec. of 2004 - the Chritstmas meltdown, and then the announcement of a rumored merger with AWA Early March, 2005...there was never, ever any mention to AFA...blatantly, overtly, covertly, or behind any closed doors that U was looking for UAL assets, if UAL missed any of their DIP.
U was busy looking for investors and conjuring up some BS on a synergistic merger with some regional carrier...the EXECS were looking for their payout, not buying UAL assets. Every month since spring of 2002-Sept. emergence from BK#2 2005, U's operation was crippled. Hell, the only reason the airline operated at all is because the rank and file stayed focused without any leadership for those 4 years!
In fact, at one point U couldn't even pay the AIG for Workers Comp premium, that was extended. I don't believe for one second that U had anyone interested in buying UAL assets when U might have not been here from month to month to even operate. Nope..no siree!
Hell, U was in BK twice and was on the verge of missing their numbers every single quarter without extensions from the ATSB.
Someone has not been forthright with you all those years you posted on a UCT rumor. THEY WANTED YOUR GROUP TO COUGH UP MONEY TO SECURE YOUR JOBS WITH RUMORS OF AN ASSET BUY.
Most of the pilots who were stupid enough to fall for such falsehoods gave up most of their livilihoods.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
If UAIR were in the dire predicament that USA320Pilot says they were, then why would they reject ANY offer? Seems to me that once the hatchetmen saw the panic they were able to create, especially in the pilots, they knew they had won anything they wanted. It was really pretty brilliant. Feed a few strategically placed individuals a few choreographed tidbits and watch the rumor mill work for you. Pilots at LCC are again being led to slaughter by frightened rumor mongers. Before it's all said and done, I expect them to give away seniority to the western division, as well as anyone else they merge with; give up more scope, allowing EMB190s at all regionals, creating a "C" scale operation (or are we up to "W" by now?), while kissing management's backsides and thanking them for the opportunity to work out of their suitcases for less money and benefits than the man gets that picks up their trash. LCC ALPA is a bunch of clowns, but I guess if the other clowns keep electing them, so be it. It's really sad to see the airline industry as a career deteriorate into such a joke.
- Thread Starter
- #102
I have explained the issues over-and-over the same old "malcontents" cannot get over the fact that this industry, like other's such as the railroads and steel industry, has changed. Do I like it? No, of course not, but stop "shooting the messenger" and move on.
US Airways has been involved in M&A activity most of its existence and it toook M&A activity funded by outside investors to pull the company through bankruptcy II.
PITBull you know that as well as I do.
Moreover, you have left US Airways, you no longer work for the Company, and now are a management employee. I believe it be better for or you to move on to the next chapter in
your life instead of venting your venom on this forum?
Life is too short to be angry all the time, but I believe anger only shortens the person's life who carries that emotion.
AS you know, US Airways' partner could have easily been United instead of America West with the transaction funded by outside investors who were willingly to invest in the combined company.
John Luth had many discussions with the financial community and he regularly flew on my Shuttle flights between LGA and DCA.
I personally do not care what you think or what you think you know. As Dan Fitzpatrick reported Project Minnow discussion happened under Dave Siegel's tenure and as US Airways Captain Ken Newberry and other's indicated US Airways rejected United's offer to have another go at a corporate transaction.
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
US Airways has been involved in M&A activity most of its existence and it toook M&A activity funded by outside investors to pull the company through bankruptcy II.
PITBull you know that as well as I do.
Moreover, you have left US Airways, you no longer work for the Company, and now are a management employee. I believe it be better for or you to move on to the next chapter in
your life instead of venting your venom on this forum?
Life is too short to be angry all the time, but I believe anger only shortens the person's life who carries that emotion.
AS you know, US Airways' partner could have easily been United instead of America West with the transaction funded by outside investors who were willingly to invest in the combined company.
John Luth had many discussions with the financial community and he regularly flew on my Shuttle flights between LGA and DCA.
I personally do not care what you think or what you think you know. As Dan Fitzpatrick reported Project Minnow discussion happened under Dave Siegel's tenure and as US Airways Captain Ken Newberry and other's indicated US Airways rejected United's offer to have another go at a corporate transaction.
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
PITbull
Veteran
320,
What I THINK I know, you say????? I lived it 24/7. I know the history intimately.
You're giving me recommendation to "move on"???
you make a funny...
Regardless of where I am stationed ...my STRIPES DON'T CHANGE ACCORDING TO WHO PAYS MY PAY CHECK. Unlike many at U, I have enough confidence to meet ANY CHALLENGE. As I did at USAirways and as I do today.
There are those folks who share the ideology of "survival of the fittest" and then, those who are, "I am my brother's keeper".
Just because I stayed in front of the 8 ball, kept getting educated so that I didn't have to take any shitt$$$ from any inept management team OR GET STUCK IN A RUT having to support my family alone on acute reduced wages, doesn't mean my ideals or philosophy have changed now that I am gone. The challenge made me stronger. I was smart enough to know when their mouths were moving...they were lying. I was preparing for the worst.
I will always be "my brother's keeper" as I know that is what makes the world go round and keeps a balance in humanity.
And you...'same old'; same old'... getting whip-lashed from management as they keep riding your horse
What I THINK I know, you say????? I lived it 24/7. I know the history intimately.
You're giving me recommendation to "move on"???
you make a funny...
Regardless of where I am stationed ...my STRIPES DON'T CHANGE ACCORDING TO WHO PAYS MY PAY CHECK. Unlike many at U, I have enough confidence to meet ANY CHALLENGE. As I did at USAirways and as I do today.
There are those folks who share the ideology of "survival of the fittest" and then, those who are, "I am my brother's keeper".
Just because I stayed in front of the 8 ball, kept getting educated so that I didn't have to take any shitt$$$ from any inept management team OR GET STUCK IN A RUT having to support my family alone on acute reduced wages, doesn't mean my ideals or philosophy have changed now that I am gone. The challenge made me stronger. I was smart enough to know when their mouths were moving...they were lying. I was preparing for the worst.
I will always be "my brother's keeper" as I know that is what makes the world go round and keeps a balance in humanity.
And you...'same old'; same old'... getting whip-lashed from management as they keep riding your horse
