ALPA Thread 1/18-1/25 ALL ALPA Discussed Here

[Richard]

New thread for the week.

 

[USA320Pilot]

MEC Chairman’s Message - January 18, 2008

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, January 18, 2008.

As you know, the US Airways MEC and America West MEC have appointed members of Steering Committees to address the major issues between us, including our issues with the Nicolau award. On January 11, 2008, all US Airways and America West pilots received a letter from ALPA President Captain John Prater, pledging his support and the support of the Association for the steering committee process. We have also received support from ALPA’s Executive Board, and this week, ALPA’s Executive Council is working on a resolution that would financially commit the Association to further funding this important work.

For the second week in a row, I have worked with the members of our Steering Committee who are charged with directing this process. These pilots have the responsibility of “exploring consensual approaches that promote mutual career protections and mutual success, as part of achieving acceptable collective bargaining outcomes that improve pay, benefits, work rules, and career security for both pilot groups.†Captain Prater also went on to write in his letter to us that in order to satisfy the requirements for membership ratification, “the proposed joint contract must address the concerns of both pilot groups.†Addressing the negative effects of the Nicolau Award and mitigating its damages is our concern.

The Three Man Steering Committee will be meeting next week with their AWA counterparts to determine if there is enough common ground to move forward to a “lock-down negotiating session.†If the discussions next week with the AWA pilots are successful, we would then agree to meet at a neutral location for a period of no less than 10 consecutive days to work through issues important to both pilots groups. I believe it is safe to say that implementing the Nicolau Award and contract advances are important to the AWA pilots. And we know that along with much-needed contractual advances, we need to address and resolve our issues with the negative effects of the Nicolau Award.

The success or failure of our endeavors will fall squarely on whether or not we can address the Nicolau Award in a manner that is acceptable to both pilot groups. We will find out in short order during our lock-down negotiations with AWA if such actions are possible. If they are, we will continue in this process that would also address all open outstanding JNC issues. The final product, if acceptable to both Steering Committees, would then be presented to each MEC for their approval and review. If both MECs are satisfied that the entire package adequately addresses the issues that are important to each, JNC negotiations would resume with management.

As you can see, there are a lot of “ifs†in this process. There are no guarantees here, just a commitment on the part of your MEC to engage in a process that might produce something that would be acceptable to you. If it is not, we are no worse for trying. If we fail in our efforts, both pilot groups will resort back to separate operations under their current contracts.

So that’s where we are right now. If our meeting next week is successful, the individuals participating in this process (right now, that is our Three Man Steering Committee—Garland Jones, Don Iorio and Rocco Spartano; our Merger Committee; our JNC, including Dean Colello; MEC Vice Chairman Kim Snider and myself) will pack our bags in preparation for the 10-day lock down negotiations with the West pilots. At the conclusion of that lock down, we will let you know whether or not there is anything for your MEC to consider and whether or not there is any chance that JNC negotiations would resume. Until then, all we ask is that you give this process every chance to succeed.

In the meantime, as always, fly safe, continue to look out for each other and thanks for listening.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Piedmont1984]

Welcome back USA320.

 

[Benz M-100]

I believe it is safe to say that implementing the Nicolau Award and contract advances are important to the AWA pilots

we need to address and resolve our issues with the negative effects of the Nicolau Award.

It seems to me these two objectives are diametricaly opposed.
If the west still thinks that the unmodified award is a starting point before anything else can happen, this process will be another waste of time.

 

[luvn737s]

It seems to me these two objectives are diametricaly opposed.
If the west still thinks that the unmodified award is a starting point before anything else can happen, this process will be another waste of time.

So in the future, how should other airlines approach arbitration? Why bother? Should the larger of the two airlines in a merger simply dictate how it will be? Should all past arbitration awards be re-opened and if not, why not? What makes this one so special?

 

[USA320Pilot]

It is my understanding the AWA MEC now believes this new Steering Committee and the proposed "lock down" 10-day session is a last chance effort to bring the two pilot groups together, obtain a joint contract, and a consensual agreement. If true, this Steering Committee has a real opportunity to begin the process to end this bitter fight between the two pilot groups.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Benz M-100]

Past and future arbitrations really don't matter. THIS one resulted in an utterly untenable result far ALL parties INCLUDING management (assuming they actually WANT a fully merged airline, and I actually believe they do). I predict that if the award isn't at the very least modified in a substantial way (or better yet, set aside altogether) that this stalemate will continue indefinitely or until enough east pilots leave through attrition the the remainder would willingly vote in a contract with it intact. Now that age 65 retirement is in effect this time frame will be even longer. Several years either way. I WILL NOT vote for ANY contract that gives away 15 YEARS of my seniority, and I have absolutely no doubt the the VAST majority of east pilots feel the same way. Until or unless that majority change their mind on this, the Nic award is moot. Modify the award, maybe a slight chance...otherwise NO chance of a contract. It's just the reality.

 

[luvn737s]

Bitter fight between two pilot groups?

That sounds like two dogs scrapping over the same bone, when it's actually one dog trying to defend the portion granted to him, and a larger dog trying to steal back what he thinks he deserves. The smaller dog can rationalize that if he can just keep what he needs to survive, maybe the larger dog will leave him alone.

However, the larger dog has proven to have an insatiable appetite.

 

[luvn737s]

Past and future arbitrations really don't matter.

Oh really? That's a little short-sighted, wouldn't you say? And what gives the current east pilots the right to a second bite at the apple that other pilots are not entitled to? Because they dreamed up U-SAPs to attempt to regain control of the process through whatever means possible?

 

[Benz M-100]

Luvn,

You can call it a second bite or anything else you want...it doesn't matter. You can spin this however you want...I (along with a vast majority of east pilots) don't care. What I posted is the reality of THIS sutuation. All that other stuff is a distraction. You want a contract, you need to consider the realities of what is actually POSSIBLE. Good or bad, right or wrong, precedent or no precedent, with an intact NIC, a contract is simply not POSSIBLE. Period.

Ganz klar?

 

[luvn737s]

Luvn,

You can call it a second bite or anything else you want...it doesn't matter. You can spin this however you want...I (along with a vast majority of east pilots) don't care. What I posted is the reality of THIS sutuation. All that other stuff is a distraction. You want a contract, you need to consider the realities of what is actually POSSIBLE. Good or bad, right or wrong, precedent or no precedent, with an intact NIC, a contract is simply not POSSIBLE. Period.

How do you propose to get rational people to follow such an irrational "good or bad, right or wrong, precedent or no precedent" philosphy to the point they are willing to gamble their careers on it? Is the Steering Committee starting from the position of an unmodified award or from the point of 120 some-odd out-of-seniority upgrades that have been allowed to occur while the barn door has been left open?

 

[flyinawa]

Luvn,

You can call it a second bite or anything else you want...it doesn't matter. You can spin this however you want...I (along with a vast majority of east pilots) don't care. What I posted is the reality of THIS sutuation. All that other stuff is a distraction. You want a contract, you need to consider the realities of what is actually POSSIBLE. Good or bad, right or wrong, precedent or no precedent, with an intact NIC, a contract is simply not POSSIBLE. Period.

Ganz klar?

So, what your saying is, "to hell with the guidelines we agreed to, the vast majority of East pilots don't like the outcome so the West pilots are going to be held hostage?" I think the vast majority of us don't want to go to work today, but guess what. We're going. Being an adult sucks doesn't it?

 

[Benz M-100]

It's not a philosophy...it's a REALITY. Even Kirby said as much in November. Apparently it's a reality that you don't care to acknowledge, let alone realistically deal with.

You can't force the east to sign a contract. It's really that simple. See you in a few years.

I'm going back to lurk mode as this is pointless.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It's not a philosophy...it's a REALITY. Even Kirby said as much in November. Apparently it's a reality that you don't care to acknowledge, let alone realistically deal with.

You can't force the east to sign a contract. It's really that simple. See you in a few years.

I'm going back to lurk mode as this is pointless.

What's pointless is believing that anger, emotion and resolve somehow translates into a robust legal claim. To date, there is not a single example in the history of jurisprudence that has allowed an entity to accomplish what usapa says is possible. Heck, they're not just calling it possible, but selling the goods as if they're a lock by any court in the nation! [snicker]

It's one thing to trigger a mechanical process: downloading forms, mailing cards, renting office space, etc etc. It's quite another to try to undue and overturn 80 years of legal precedent. Assuming that usapa tries to actually execute on their campaign promises, then they're DOA. But, if they're just trying to get elected, then....whatever, I guess. I have no problem with them hoodwinking their own kind.

 

[Benz M-100]

Whether USAPA's legal stance is valid or not is not really germane to what has been discussed in this thread. The reality of this sutuation with respect to obtaining a contract is.
The legal position of various posters has repeatedly been posted ad nauseum. That process wil play out however it plays out.