ALPA Thread 1/18-1/25 ALL ALPA Discussed Here

[EastUS]

Bitter fight between two pilot groups?

That sounds like two dogs scrapping over the same bone, when it's actually one dog trying to defend the portion granted to him, and a larger dog trying to steal back what he thinks he deserves. The smaller dog can rationalize that if he can just keep what he needs to survive, maybe the larger dog will leave him alone.

However, the larger dog has proven to have an insatiable appetite.

Well..at least you've finally acknowledged the relative sizes of the "dogs" in this fight. See?..There IS hope for progress....

 

[luvn737s]

It's not a philosophy...it's a REALITY. Even Kirby said as much in November. Apparently it's a reality that you don't care to acknowledge, let alone realistically deal with.

Kirby is trying to get the west F/O's to pay the price necessary to merge the two pilot groups. I'd expect him to try, but I wouldn't expect the east to enable him.

 

[EastUS]

I have no problem with them hoodwinking their own kind.

I rather imagined that you wouldn't....and that speaks volumes. I honestly do hope that you're among the voices listened to out west...Given enough time...they might wake up.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Past and future arbitrations really don't matter. THIS on resulted in an utterly untenable result far ALL parties INCLUDING management (assuming they actually WANT a fully merged airline, and I actually believe they do). I predict that if the award isn't at the very least modified in a substantial way (or better yet, set aside altogether) that this stalemate will continue indefinitely or until enough east pilots leave through attrition the the remainder would willingly vote in a contract with it intact. Now that age 65 retirement is in effect this time frame will be even longer. Several years either way. I WILL NOT vote for ANY contract that gives away 15 YEARS of my seniority, and I have absolutely no doubt the the VAST majority of east pilots feel the same way. Until or unless that majority change their mind on this, the Nic award is moot. Modify the award, maybe a slight chance...otherwise NO chance of a contract. It's just the reality.

So, Benz, what is the true value of your "15 years of seniority?" Seems to me you are completely ignoring the fact that AWA brought around 120 airframes to this party along with the pilots - and their seniority - who fly them. By ignoring that fact, you are also ignoring the fact that your 15 years is substantially diluted. Additionally, your furlough time dilutes those years even further. Now I, do not know how many actual years of active service your "15 years" include, but you cannot expect, under any circumstances, to receive full credit for that time. If you did, that act would fall squarely withing the guidelines of receiving a "windfall."

Now, I'm sure your soundbites sound good when you are chest thumping amongst your eastern pilot peers, but it surely rings hollow here on this board and in every other venue willing to project your distorted views.

At some point you will need to wake up and face reality regarding the Nic Award. Once you do that, we can move on and begin to improve the lives of ALL US Airways pilots. THAT is where your focus should be.

 

[EastUS]

good when you are chest thumping amongst your eastern pilot peers, but it surely rings hollow here on this board and in every other venue willing to project your distorted views.

Once you do that, we can move on and begin to improve the lives of ALL US Airways pilots. THAT is where your focus should be.

"So, Benz, what is the true value of your "15 years of seniority?" Good question. What IS "the true value of seniority"?..and what should it be based on?..Astrological signs?..Adolescent fanasies of "brought" jobs?/etc...perhaps signs of the zodiac...that's the ticket..

"Seems to me you are completely ignoring the fact that AWA brought around 120 airframes to this party.." No problem = They can have them.

"you cannot expect, under any circumstances, to receive full credit for that time." Ummm...Ok: WHY NOT?...AWA people are magically "special" and superior to lesser mortals out east in exactly what way?

"At some point you will need to wake up and face reality regarding the Nic Award." Ummm...we have, in case you've not yet noticed.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The 10-day “lock-down negotiating sessionâ€￾ is scheduled to begin on January 29.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[EastUS]

The 10-day “lock-down negotiating sessionâ€￾ is scheduled to begin on January 29.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

While it'll be interesting to see how much Alpa smoke and how many mirrors come of this...I'm immediately reminded of the old USAF joke regarding" "What do you do in the event of a Wing fire?"..Sir; Lock the doors and make sure that none of the bastiges get out!"

 

[Leonidas]

The 10-day “lock-down negotiating sessionâ€￾ is scheduled to begin on January 29.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

So are you still a usapa supporter since alpa saved your job? Then again you are dumb enough to be back here posting, typical easthole.

 

[EastUS]

So are you still a usapa supporter since alpa saved your job? Then again you are dumb enough to be back here posting, typical easthole.

"typical easthole" Ah yes..the producer of "Goat Boy-The Great ALPA Film" speaketh. Keep polishing up the extremely classy west image at your pleasure. I'm ashamed of a mutual Eastern heritage here...sigh.

PS: What does the EAL shared experience make me? A "typical easthole"?, or a "brother EAL type"?...or does purely personal opportunism now serve as your tuning fork?

"Back in the day"..What would have been our response at EAL to some BS "relative seniority", that invalidated decades of flying, being shoved down our throats?...Honestly?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

What's pointless is believing that anger, emotion and resolve somehow translates into a robust legal claim.

maybe not, but a legal claim can be translated into anger, emotion and resolve.

In the end, resolve (lots of it) is all the east pilots need to prevent Nic, right?

The rest is just chess.

 

[Benz M-100]

So, Benz, what is the true value of your "15 years of seniority?"

According to you and the illustrious arbitrator, ZERO. They just disappeared! Poof. I'm now at 20+ in REAL years, but I guess the first 15+ were just for giggles. Yeah...I'll sign on for a contract with that! NOT!!!

Multiply this sentiment by about 3000 or so and you have....

THE REALITY!

Anything with an intact Nic = NO, NEIN, NYET.

Any questions?

 

[EastUS]

According to you and the illustrious arbitrator, ZERO. They just disappeared! Poof. I'm now at 20+ in REAL years, but I guess the first 15+ were just for giggles. Yeah...I'll sign on for a contract with that! NOT!!!

Multiply this sentiment by about 3000 or so and you have....

THE REALITY!

Anything with an intact Nic = NO, NEIN, NYET.

Any questions?

"but I guess the first 15+ were just for giggles" Sigh..Some people just can't take a "joke"....

"REALITY!....What a Concept" Robin Williams joke, delivered care of ALPA/AWA

"Anything with an intact Nic = NO, NEIN, NYET. " Works for me....

 

[flyinawa]

According to you and the illustrious arbitrator, ZERO. They just disappeared! Poof. I'm now at 20+ in REAL years, but I guess the first 15+ were just for giggles........

Any questions?

Yeah, here's a question. What if Jet Blue would have bailed out your sinking boat? Would you have expected EVERYONE there, Captains included, to slide down to 190 FOs and furlough fodder so you could bring all the out of work pilots and elite "embraer division" pilots back above them at DOH? It would be "crazy" to do that, right? In essence, that what you are insisting on.

Relative "seniority" means relative "position". You didn't lose ground and the junior AWA pilots didn't gain. I'm sorry you didn't get the advancement and the fourth strip you felt you were entitled. Because we don't have a NATIONAL seniority list, that's just the way it is.

 

[EastUS]

Yeah, here's a question. What if Jet Blue would have bailed out your sinking boat? Would you have expected EVERYONE there, Captains included, to slide down to 190 FOs and furlough fodder so you could bring all the out of work pilots and elite "embraer division" pilots back above them at DOH? It would be "crazy" to do that, right? In essence, that what you are insisting on.

Relative "seniority" means relative "position". You didn't lose ground and the junior AWA pilots didn't gain. I'm sorry you didn't get the advancement and the fourth strip you felt you were entitled. Because we don't have a NATIONAL seniority list, that's just the way it is.

And..what was your "relative position" to flying that didn't even remotely exist for you out west? "You didn't lose ground and the junior AWA pilots didn't gain." That first is certainly true, having blocked the Nic BS thus far. That last's purely absurd in ANY/EVERY sense possible if Nic were ever to see the light of day. The "fourth strip you felt you were entitled." is a questionable notion. EVERYONE present at the time of the merger out east either had, or could have previously bid said "fourth stripe"...Check the jacket coats around town. It isn't any big issue of "upgrades" out here...it's largely just regaining seats. How truly reasonable is it to place anyone previously flying captain permanently below any of your folks who've never even done so on any mainline? We could argue this forever, and solve nothing it seems.

"What if?"...Means ZIP.

"Because we don't have a NATIONAL seniority list," Is but another compelling reason to dump Alpa's total joke as a "National" nothing.

The difficulty's as follows for my view: The east folks haven't shown the slightest group desire to sign away on anything that eradicates seniority. "Pay parity"/"Great Contract" fantasies, or "Live on LOA93 forever" simply do not offer any substantive reasons to do so. The seniority isssue is HUGE for us. That doesn't even begin to address the collective disgust with Alpa as a "union".....much less the utter contempt for Nic = "Ho Ho Ho..St nic is coming to town" from the west merely provokes an instant "Oh YEAH!??..over my/your dead body!!" ..("dead body" being figurative expression only obviously).from the average east guy/gal...and here we are. I don't envision any "fix" through Alpa's ministrations.

 

[flynomore]

.....

Relative "seniority" means relative "position". You didn't lose ground and the junior AWA pilots didn't gain. ....

The old man one ahead of Famous Dave on the Nicolau list will now have all but 1 of the current AWA first officers upgrade prior to him with no counting for the relative numbers of captains, captain and first officer retirements from the old list.

That sir is a gain if you can't see that, call your MEC and I can call mine and save the cost of the lock down at whatever sweet resort is booked.