ALPA Thread 12/21 to 12/28 ALL ALPA/USAPA here

[end_of_alpa]

The point was the Japanese (USAPA) won the battle and LOST the war. Duh....

So your point is that 3100+ pilots in the East are the enemy. This is the message that you and luvn737s promote and it is a sad fact indeed. A fine point that ALPA has promoted and has now brought this industry into turmoil.

I prefer +3100 of US Airways finest working and watching my back ANY DAY over the alternatives both the East AND West MEC's have to offer. We can all agree on ONE THING. There will be NO CONTRACT with ALPA involved. You may blame, you can point, you can scream...but regardless of who is to blame, one thing is certain we can all agree...THERE WILL BE NO AGREEMENT until this deadlock is resolved.

1. ALPA presented an award and performed their duty 17 December 2007.

2. AWA MEC will negotiate nothing unless the award is accepted by the EAST. They are the minority and are therefore unable to "steer" any negotiations with the company without the East. They are rudderless and ineffective!

3. US MEC is divided in their priorities as to whether to negotiate parity first or a "mitigation" of the Nicolau award, thereby continually violating the very resolutions they passed just a few months ago. The MINORITY of the EAST MEC vacilate on their resolutions and therefore the East MEC has become "leaderless" and therefore ineffective! The problem with this MEC, a hold over from the previously WEAK administrations policies (and now forming ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee ACPC and promising MORE OF THE SAME), is one thing and one thing only....they neglected to use the one ultimate factor in their favor...the MAJORITY WAY or the HIGHWAY (for ALPA). TWA used it with Ozark. The only thing they did wrong WAS stay in ALPA. Believe me if the EAST MEC had taken THAT policy two years ago we wouldn't be where we are now!

4. ALPA is therefore a ship adrift in a sea of uncertainties with pilots from other airlines seeking our demise and a company that sees our pettiness, thereby utilizing the rift to enhance their balance sheet into the new year.

5. USAPA is the ONLY MEANS to cure the deadlock. That much is OBVIOUS now.

Unfortunately the MEC's on both sides have been unable to agree...so therefore we're back to the main determining factor. MAJORITY. Debate all you want, but in the end MAJORITY determines the outcome of any CB agreement.

PERIOD.

If USAPA gets voted in and the WEST wishes a scorched earth policy according to McIlvenna then have at it...cutting your nose off to spite your face NOT the way to eliminate a cancer that serves to potentially DESTROY THE US Airways pilot group. If you imply that USAPA is a cancer then you imply that 3100+ wish to pursue a different course of action to resolve an already irresolvable dilema. US Airways pilots are guilty BY ASSOCIATION and therefore the enemy.

I will agree with the STUPIDITY of an East MEC wishing to go to an Arbitration when THEY represented the MAJORITY (as referenced in U-turn by Dave Blomgren). The failure to use that leverage is simply a Duty of Fair Represenation IMHO (a DFR suit wouldn't succeed here either so don't read into this more than it is.)

However, the MAJORITY didn't PROMISE anything. The MEC reps did!!! Do not connect them with the rank and file. That would be the same thing as performing genocide against the Japanese and Germans for the crimes against humanity TOJO and HITLER and their ilk did to the WORLD!

However, lets keep this contest in the perspective of unionism. I have been asked why the Arbitrator made such a ruling that would severely divide a merged pilot group. My answer obviously can at BEST be described as speculative since I wouldn't know him if he walked up to me. I will say this, however...I think that Nicolau is a warped, frustrated old man who wanted to see what would happen if he made a decision that he knew would be his last. His SOLE PURPOSE was to drive a wedge into the labor union movement and see what would happen.

I can assure you he is watching his legacy play out in the comfort of his 250-year-old Georgian Home in Ireland, which includes horse stables, pastures and a billiard and pool table...all on the backs of OUR money! (I can verify ALL the information on this post if you have ANY doubts.)

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Let me say this ONE MORE TIME....the list becomes part of a CBA IF, AND ONLY IF, THE MAJORITY OF PILOTS VOTE FOR IT UNDER ALPA. IT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE HURTLE THAT BINDS ALPA, AND ALPA ONLY. NO ONE ELSE. IF USAPA presents a list that comports with the same conditions and restrictions the company imposed on ALPA they would be bound to accept THAT list as well. Remember the T/A cannot be a "contract" if it has to be voted in.

What is an administrative hurtle?

 

[end_of_alpa]

What is an administrative hurtle?

Don't you read anything? Why don't you call McIlvenna and ask HIM. HE wrote it in the latest AW MEC chairman's message. HE'LL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. Come back when you can pass the comprehension test for unionism 101. McIlvenna can threaten...but he has been MEC Chairman long enough to understand unionism 101.

By the way, IMHO, if I were you AWA guys you better start TALKING to your MEC Chairman because, regardless of his threatening letter to USAPA, which can be found on both the USAPA and AWA public websites, I do not believe he is anybodys FOOL. You may want to listen to what he has to say....you just may get a reality check here shortly when the elections are announced. FYI.

 

[Bear96]

The award is ELIMINATED after USAPA arrives. That SIR, is a FACT. That, SIR, is the LAW.

I didn't know this, and I thought I knew labor law pretty well.

Could you please point me to "the LAW" which states a successor union is not bound by the agreements of its predecessor?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Don't you read anything? Why don't you call McIlvenna and ask HIM. HE wrote it in the latest AW MEC chairman's message. HE'LL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. Come back when you can pass the comprehension test for unionism 101. McIlvenna can threaten...but he has been MEC Chairman long enough to understand unionism 101.

By the way, IMHO, if I were you AWA guys you better start TALKING to your MEC Chairman because, regardless of his threatening letter to USAPA, which can be found on both the USAPA and AWA public websites, I do not believe he is anybodys FOOL. You may want to listen to what he has to say....you just may get a reality check here shortly when the elections are announced. FYI.

What is the difference between hurtle and hurdle? I'm not taking anything for granted, I'm just messing with a more educated and more experienced pilot, thats all.

Ready, fire, aim. Usapa in a nutshell. "All this stuff is gonna happen because I say so." More usapa in a nutshell. That is my impression, although I am taking nothing for granted. Forgive me if I'm not ready to just jump on your bandwagon, I'm less than convinced, much less than convinced.

 

[Bear96]

Let me say this ONE MORE TIME....the list becomes part of a CBA IF, AND ONLY IF, THE MAJORITY OF PILOTS VOTE FOR IT UNDER ALPA.

Really? I didn't know that either.

So you are saying part of the ALPA merger policy states that in the event a seniority dispute goes to arbitration, and the arbitrator has issued a decision, there is still the requirement of membership ratification before it becomes binding? Could you post that part of the merger policy? (Or if I misunderstood you, could you please clarify?)

I am learning so much today!

Of course you could also get a great amount of GOOD SOLID FACTUAL information by simply reading the USAPA web site. GOOD LUCK with your education.

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read on USAviation.

I had better make room for Nostradamus now. I am sensing he suddenly had the urge to cut and paste something irrelevant into this thread.

 

[sharktooth]

Isn't it quite interesting that each company pays the same (within a few cents) for jet fuel whether making or losing money. How can that be? Could it be that the oil companies refuse to set their prices according to profit or loss of who they provide the fuel for?

Good show! I was wondering when someone would say the emperor has no clothes.

One might think that with the lowest employee costs in the industry, Tempe would be "best" at something positive.

 

[Richard]

The new ALPA/USAPA thread is now open for the upcoming week. Please continue discussions there.