ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[ClueByFour]

Wanna bet?

Go back, and look what I said would happen when the East NC set it's hard line. I practically predicted Nicolau, hook, line, and sinker.

You won't cramdown DOH. Bank it. The West guys (or their lawyers, at least) have been smarter at every turn. This is no exception.

You won't be using them as furlough fodder--there is no sane way to explain why someone who was on furlough at the time of the merger should not be furloughed again before someone who brought a job. None. Zero. Nada. Yes, Virginia, in many very valuable ways that HP job was worth more, particularly in terms of actually working. That you don't want to hear it does not change it.

So, enjoy the "let's vote!" thing. Maybe you geniuses can go ahead and make another nifty ceremonial box to celebrate victory (watch out for the important info on the cards!). But you won't screw the West guys by doing it. It's a shame that you have created an entire union by intimating otherwise.

Best case: another arbitration, probably based on the Allegheny/Mowhawk stuff. You still won't get DOH or 1800 pilots worth of furlough fodder.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Mr. Boeing Boy,


What is your problem?

While I don't have a "problem" - just the occassional comment based on the info presented here - it is somewhat refreshing to see the standard pattern continually surface. It seems that the most ardent USAPA supporters, at least here (and AAA737Pilot, I point to you as one of the few exceptions), do exactly what they adamantly accuse ALPA of. If anyone doesn't toe the party line it's means they have some kind of problem - too emotionally involved, biased, being an "Alpoid" cheerleader, etc. It's either unquestioning loyalty to the "Party line" or derisive dismissal - no dissenting thoughts/opinions or even questioning of actions welcome.

So have a good day.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

Clue, alpa cheerleader now, critic earlier.

Reviewing your posts starting in January 03, shows your disdain for alpa and pilots. Post number 108 is an interesting opinion that all pilots agree on now regarding alpa.

Don't put words in my mouth.

You see, I never said I was a fan of ALPA. I am totally disgusted by the land grab that has been tried by the AAA pilot group at every turn (see the UAL merger, see the transcripts for the Nicolau arbitration). USAPA is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to get what the AAA pilots f'ed up with in front of the arbitrator. It won't work. What USAPA is trying to do is just as disgusting as what ALPA did to the CCair guys.

Sweetie, if you want to hit and run, you are going to have to do better than that. You are the quintessential hit and run artist--it's a shame you lack any sort of acumen doing it. I'd love to retort, but I can't find anything of substance in any one of the 1,240 posts you have. It's all the same type of BS we see here.

 

[luv2fly]

ALPA's policy = Union first. USAPA's policy = Pilots First.

From's who's perspective? I'll give you the ALPA= Union first. I would imagine alot of West pilots think USAPA= East pilots first.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

From's who's perspective? I'll give you the ALPA= Union first. I would imagine alot of West pilots think USAPA= East pilots first.

You may very well be right, judging by the way some west posters think. At least in here anyway. Luckily cooler and saner heads running USAPA are aware of the difficulties facing all of us. Which, BTW do not post on web boards.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It seems that the most ardent USAPA supporters, at least here (and AAA737Pilot, I point to you as one of the few exceptions), do exactly what they adamantly accuse ALPA of.

I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks. Luckily the USAPA leadership has not subscribed to the ALPA modus operandi. At least not to my knowledge, which is most refreshing and that is why they have my support. However, IMO all bets are off concerning Prater

 

[EastUS]

Don't put words in my mouth.

You see, I never said I was a fan of ALPA. I am totally disgusted by the land grab that has been tried by the AAA pilot group at every turn (see the UAL merger, see the transcripts for the Nicolau arbitration). USAPA is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to get what the AAA pilots f'ed up with in front of the arbitrator. It won't work. What USAPA is trying to do is just as disgusting as what ALPA did to the CCair guys.

Some people have respect for years worked and experience gained. Some clearly don't. End of story.

Alpa's amongst those who don't...and, for that reason among many, many others.... it's time's running out.

 

[EastUS]

.....do exactly what they adamantly accuse ALPA of.

"accuse"?...Perhaps indicative of such observations being in ANY way not obviously true? Puhleeaze Shall we review Alpa's latest little "Loyalty Oaths", refusal to act on a requested recall at CLT, and of course...the fun little games being played with the PHL council? "accuse"???....that's "cute"..How about "observe"? i've no problems with dissenting opinions, and am eagerly awaiting your or ANYONE's possible defense for Alpa's actions of late.

Ummm...Anyone?....Anyone at all? 😉

 

[ClueByFour]

Some people have respect for years worked and experience gained. Some clearly don't. End of story.

Herein lies the rub: 8 years experience at HP brought a job. 8 years experience at US did not. End of story.

USAPA is trying to rewrite that truth at the expense of the HP pilots after an arbitrator ruled as such. It's morally bankrupt to suggest that someone (regardless of experience) who did not bring a job to a merger should be placed before someone who did. It's morally bankrupt to suggest that a 16 year FO should be placed ahead of a 9 year Captain.

(it's equally morally bankrupt to suggest that the HP guys should capture the East attrition--but arbitration is a gamble. East knew it, east lost, and now East is trying to cram down a mulligan).

Alpa's amongst those who don't...and, for that reason among many, many others.... it's time's running out.

Name will change. Situation won't.

 

[P51Pilot]

Herein lies the rub: 8 years experience at HP brought a job. 8 years experience at US did not. End of story.

USAPA is trying to rewrite that truth at the expense of the HP pilots after an arbitrator ruled as such. It's morally bankrupt to suggest that someone (regardless of experience) who did not bring a job to a merger should be placed before someone who did. It's morally bankrupt to suggest that a 16 year FO should be placed ahead of a 9 year Captain.

(it's equally morally bankrupt to suggest that the HP guys should capture the East attrition--but arbitration is a gamble. East knew it, east lost, and now East is trying to cram down a mulligan).



Name will change. Situation won't.

Let's see. Allegheny purchased bankrupt Lake Central and....DOH. Allegheny purchased bankrupt Mohawk which had ceased operations.....DOH. USAir purchased almost bankrupt PSA who was 1/6th their size........DOH. Lake central and Mohawk had furloughed pilots recalled senior to active Allegheny pilots.

I suppose if CAL and UAL had merged two years ago, the UAL pilots should have been screwed as operating in the red with furloughed but now they are hiring new Hires faster than CAL and in the black so an entirely different award would be fair. You preach opportunism and non unionism. Talk about being morally corrupt.

 

[ableoneable]

Let's see. Allegheny purchased bankrupt Lake Central and....DOH. Allegheny purchased bankrupt Mohawk which had ceased operations.....DOH. USAir purchased almost bankrupt PSA who was 1/6th their size........DOH. Lake central and Mohawk had furloughed pilots recalled senior to active Allegheny pilots.

I suppose if CAL and UAL had merged two years ago, the UAL pilots should have been screwed as operating in the red with furloughed but now they are hiring new Hires faster than CAL and in the black so an entirely different award would be fair. You preach opportunism and non unionism. Talk about being morally corrupt.

Well at least you are finaly admiting that you are attempting to steal the jobs of west pilots. You are now simply changing your justification to "It's the way it has always been done."

I see that none of you can answer a direct question.

Is it or is it not fair/moral/right to furlough a west pilot who brought a job to the merger while a former furloughed east pilot stays on line?

Anwers?

Didn't think so.

Though I do expect to be called an idiot or a rookie.

 

[P51Pilot]

Is it or is it not fair/moral/right to furlough a west pilot who brought a job to the merger while a former furloughed east pilot stays on line?

No one can predict the future and the hopes would be that wouldn't happen but yes. It's called being in a union and the way the AFA, CWA, IAM etc., do it. Would it be any less fair for a flight attendant? They accept it.

Moral/right? You keep your job because of the union, not company pleasure. Some consider fair and right would be for the company to layoff whom it chooses and pleases to. If it were parking a specific aircraft type, I'm sure it would prefer to just layoff those pilots and incur no retraining expenses or loss in productivity. Why is it that the most junior are furloughed and the senior retrained to an aircraft remaining in the fleet.? The contract and the union and seniority rules the day. Seniority is valued by time and nothing else unless one wants no rule but what they can claw from each other.

If you want no rules, no adherence to unionist tenets and only leverage to win the day, Ok, but lets not draw any line. Scabbing, personal deals with scheduling, really anything should be fair game with no one bitching.

 

[nostradamus]

Hey we voted in alpa leaders for our usairways mec. Wait a minute, I do not remember voting, does anyone else.

US Airways Unit of the Air Line Pilots Association Reelects MEC Officers

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Voting, a novel concept.

I wonder how the PHL pilots feel about their state of representation? Or lack thereof. I think they should press for a temporary restraining order until new representation can be lawfully elected to office. Then have a vote on the MEC officers. IMO this MEC term is illegitimate and should face the consequences for any and all actions affecting the rank and file. But hey its a "union" and they can do whatever they want. Right?

 

[nostradamus]

US Airways pilots were not the only ones meeting alpa clowns. The American Eagle Pilots are also realizing alpa is like the raid roach motel, you can check in, but you can not check out.

The ALPA Goat Roping Circus arlequins, Clowns and Court Jesters – they’re back!