ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow pilots,

As USAPA works to build a better union for all US Airways pilots, we are pleased to announce today that our requirements for a superior Aeromedical Plan and Loss of License insurance plan has now been met

USAPA now has a full Aeromedical Plan in place and will be ready to go on Day One. We have chosen Harvey Watt and Company to administer USAPA's Aeromedical plan. With 57 years of experience in this field and long before ALPA offered any insurance services, Harvey Watt and Company has been providing the airline industry with premier insurance products and services. You can find their welcome letter here which details their background, services, and support physicians, all of which is available thru USAPA. In addition, for those US Airways pilots with special Aeromedical issues, the services of our own Capt. Peter Lambrou, M.D. are available, although they are not included within the HW&C plan. US Airways Captain Lambrou is a highly regarded Aeromedical doctor, located in Pittsburgh, PA.

The combination of an experienced Aeromedical provider with decades of experience, along with the specialized services of Captain Lambrou, a well known Aeromedical physician, equals a superior combination for all US Airways pilots.

USAPA also takes great pleasure in announcing the availability of seamless Loss of License (LOL) insurance. Through our expanding relationship with Harvey Watt and Company, USAPA has received a commitment from the Great Southern Life Insurance Company to issue Lump Sum and/or Monthly Pay Loss of License Insurance coverage to members of USAPA, in an equal amount of coverage at the published rates for that amount at the pilot’s current age.

Great Southern will guarantee to issue, without current evidence of insurability, the same benefit amount with no exclusions or coverage limitations other than those that exist in their standard certificate of coverage (unless the existing coverage has specific exclusions – in which event they would be replicated). The guaranteed effective date of the replacement coverage will be the date the member’s coverage is terminated under the ALPA group.

Pilots currently holding ALPA Life, AD&D and LOL insurance can rest easy during the transition to USAPA, knowing that they have guaranteed issue, identical products to those they currently hold. Once again USAPA proves it has the expertise to fulfill the needs of the US Airways pilots, and although ALPA will claim USAPA can not provide competitive group insurance to their pilots, the fact is we now join the ranks of APA, SWAPA and others offering equal or superior products than ALPA, and this was accomplished in our first year.

Notwithstanding all of the noise you've heard to the contrary, USAPA keeps its promises and we believe it’s not what you say, rather it’s what you do. Fellow pilots, this is the power of a union committed to the needs of the US Airways pilots, and only the US Airways pilots.

USAPA is the Pilots Union.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I guess justifications are only valid and "factual" when they support YOUR view, but not when others try to support their view. This has been th East's problem since day one. There is no rationalizing with the irrational.

Then why do you want us to remain with ALPA? To save us from ourselves? To protect your position? If we are such a problem why do you want us? What does it matter to you anyway what we do? So ALPA can trumpet how strong we are? Hypocrites one and all. You don't want us, you want our dues dollars. Nothing more.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

UNION MEETING NOTICE

Airport Marriott
PHL
Friday, March 14
10:00am-2:00pm

Your elected Philly reps. cordially invite you and your friends to a good ‘Ol fashioned UNION RALLY!

AGENDA

· Bogus charges against your Philly reps.
· Trusteeship and your newly appointed trustees.
· The ALPA lie that is Separate Operations.
· Unionism….what it is and what it ain’t.

Stay Tuned

We will be announcing our special guests as they confirm. We promise you THIS IS THE ONE UNION EVENT YOU WON’T WANT TO MISS!

This past week you have all bestowed upon us the greatest honors of our piloting careers. WE are so proud of YOU, you can’t begin to imagine.

We’re STILL STANDING!
Eric-T1
Dave-T2
Jim-T3

Now this ought to be interesting. I wonder if the Prater Quislings also known as "Trustees" will try to show up?

 

[767jetz]

Then why do you want us to remain with ALPA? To save us from ourselves? To protect your position? If we are such a problem why do you want us? What does it matter to you anyway what we do?

I personally don't want you. It really doesn't matter to me if you are in ALPA or not. What I do believe is that many East pilots (Not all. And maybe not even most. But many) would be better served by ALPA than USAPA. I sure as heck know that the West doesn't want USAPA. So when you combine the West with those on the East side who understand reality and the big picture, you end up with a majority of pilots at the new USAirways. I believe that this drive, which is nothing more than an attempt to disregard the Nicolau award and cram DOH onto the West, will leave the East with the very same Nicolau award plus a weaker union and a much lower quality of life for all involved.

I also despise those who do not stand by the consequences of their actions, nor take responsibility for their own circumstances, and continually seek to place blame on the rest of the world for their perceived persecution. That is the only reason I care about the outcome of this election. It has nothing to do with your dues money. You can keep it as far as I'm concerned.

IMO your pilot group as a whole will fare far worse under USAPA than ever under ALPA. I do respect your prerogative to have an election and let the cards fall where they may. But don't think that everyone has to sit by and watch with closed mouths while you pontificate from your pulpit. You do not occupy the moral high ground nor do you have exclusive claim to the "facts."

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I personally don't want you. It really doesn't matter to me if you are in ALPA or not. What I do believe is that many East pilots (Not all. And maybe not even most. But many) would be better served by ALPA than USAPA.

I'll ask again, why do you care? It doesn't affect you.

I sure as heck know that the West doesn't want USAPA. So when you combine the West with those on the East side who understand reality and the big picture, you end up with a majority of pilots at the new USAirways. I believe that this drive, which is nothing more than an attempt to disregard the Nicolau award and cram DOH onto the West, will leave the East with the very same Nicolau award plus a weaker union and a much lower quality of life for all involved.

For some it is only about the Nic award. For others, like me, it goes far beyond that. In '92 there was no merger or Nic or Shuttle for that matter. We tried then. We're succeeding now. If getting Nic implemented is a slam dunk as my west brethren think, no matter who the CBA is, why is there so much FUD, propaganda and just outright lies to convince the east to vote no?

It has nothing to do with your dues money. You can keep it as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks. ALPA has seen the last of my dues money.

IMO your pilot group as a whole will fare far worse under USAPA than ever under ALPA. I do respect your prerogative to have an election and let the cards fall where they may. But don't think that everyone has to sit by and watch with closed mouths while you pontificate from your pulpit. You do not occupy the moral high ground nor do you have exclusive claim to the "facts."

Then once again, I ask why you should care? Let us decide. At least you give us the prerogative. Pontificating? Only if we disagree with you. What are you doing now? Telling me I will be worse off? ALPA is stronger so you must remain? Oh thats right, you personally don't want me/us. So much contradiction.

 

[767jetz]

I'll ask again, why do you care? It doesn't affect you.

I care about starving children in Africa as well, even though it doesn't personally affect me.
Doesn't surprise me that you don't grasp the concept that caring about an issue doesn't have to be prefaced by some personal gain.

Oh thats right, you personally don't want me/us. So much contradiction.

I said i don't care if you are in ALPA. I said nothing about you as a collective.

 

[P51Pilot]

March 8, 2008





US Airways MEC Chairman



Dear MEC Chair:



It is with deep regret that I tender my resignation effective immediately. Having recently been elected to be the F/O representative for council 32, I assumed this responsibility with the hope and certain expectations. I participated in this, my first MEC Quarterly Meeting with the best of intentions to faithfully represent Boston, and all the pilots of US Airways.

I now find myself to be simply a passenger on a runaway train heading for disaster. To continue to be part of this governing body, I feel would lend credence to its claim that it represents the will of the pilots that elected me.



Whereas I and so many other long time ALPA volunteers believe that this is no longer the case, I respectfully tender my resignation.



Respectfully,









Council 32 First Officer Representative

 

[sharktooth]

IMO your pilot group as a whole will fare far worse under USAPA than ever under ALPA. I do respect your prerogative to have an election and let the cards fall where they may. But don't think that everyone has to sit by and watch with closed mouths while you pontificate from your pulpit. You do not occupy the moral high ground nor do you have exclusive claim to the "facts."

Wow! Talk about "moral high ground" and just plain pontification.

You have no idea what is going on at east, much less the west yet you proffer "facts" which are not facts but opinions. Some have tried to acquaint you with facts but then you run off shouting we are being argumentative. Like a monkey with its fingers in its ears you speak but do not listen. In your case, I would suggest it should be the other way around. You might actually learn something.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I care about starving children in Africa as well, even though it doesn't personally affect me.
Doesn't surprise me that you don't grasp the concept that caring about an issue doesn't have to be prefaced by some personal gain.

Good for you. So do I. Plus many other issues. I grasp a lot of things, but you're the one who posted that ALPA written propaganda about supporting me. I guess your convictions and mine differ.

I said i don't care if you are in ALPA. I said nothing about you as a collective.

That's good to know. Thank you for posting a message about support and then tell me you don't care. Sounds like all the other discontented ALPA people I have met over the years. But collective? I am part of that "Collective" so in reality you don't want me or us for that matter. Typical, so very typical.

 

[767jetz]

That's good to know. Thank you for posting a message about support and then tell me you don't care. Sounds like all the other discontented ALPA people I have met over the years. But collective? I am part of that "Collective" so in reality you don't want me or us for that matter. Typical, so very typical.

Sorry you feel that way. It is my belief that the few of you here on this site do not have the best interest of ALL USAirways pilots in mind. IMO the few of you here have a very personal agenda that includes disenfranchising the West pilots and anyone else you see fit, to have your way at all cost. Your way or the highway. I most certainly do support the USAirways pilots. (And that statement comes from me, not ALPA.) I do not support, nor do I find the need to be inclusive of, those who would derail forward movement that would benefit every single pilot in a group, just to cling to a personal agenda. Perhaps I am wrong about you personally, and if I am then I'm sorry. Nevertheless, that is how I see it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Sorry you feel that way. It is my belief that the few of you here on this site do not have the best interest of ALL USAirways pilots in mind. IMO the few of you here have a very personal agenda that includes disenfranchising the West pilots and anyone else you see fit, to have your way at all cost. Your way or the highway. I most certainly do support the USAirways pilots. (And that statement comes from me, not ALPA.) I do not support, nor do I find the need to be inclusive of, those who would derail forward movement that would benefit every single pilot in a group, just to cling to a personal agenda. Perhaps I am wrong about you personally, and if I am then I'm sorry. Nevertheless, that is how I see it.

"PERSONAL AGENDA"? Pot meet kettle. The ONLY AGENDA you seek is OUR JOBS and you and your ALPA "brothers and sisters" would like nothing more than to see us FAIL so that would be MORE for your company and secure YOUR job.

NOT HAPPENING! You support US ONLY IF IT MEANS TOTING THE 767jetz line. THAT IS THE ALPA LINE!

When YOU see my years of service the same as yours, when YOU strike the SAME time as we do, when ALL of us have the SAME contracts with the same pay and working conditions as you do, talk to me then and we'll have something in common.

Until then, go back to preaching the virtues of your ALPA United pilots. Because IF US Airways ever BUYS United, (don't think we can't), our pilot group will have the upper hand. I can fly that 777 as well as you can! I have the experience to boot!

A PERSONAL AGENDA? What you say is TAKE ONE FOR THE GIPPER! Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, Western, Republic, Ozark and many others suffered under ALPA the same way. NO LONGER!

What will you say if the overwhelming vote is for USAPA? We're not REAL airline pilots? We're not a REAL union? We don't know what we're doing? The West pilots were screwed so ALPA will support them? The NWA pilots don't rank as high as the real DELTA pilots so they should go junior when they merge because the "career expectations" were so much higher? Where will it end? You tell me!

The West "disenfranchized" the East by wanting something that they had nothing left to loose on....arbitration. East wanted DOH/restrictions.

West figured out the worst THEY would get is that East was arguing DOH/restrictions (not being truly stapled to the bottom) so it was better to take the Las Vegas gamble and go to arbitration. You know, throw it against the wall and see what sticks. The HUGE mistake our MEC did was not forcing ALPA national to accept our proposition as a basis and work from there or we're OUT OF ALPA!

Our MEC was STUPID! The pilots, however, have been trustworthy TOO LONG! And now we are where we are....becoming what unionism is all about....sweat equity. And THAT is why we're loathed by ALPA PILOTS! Go shovel it somewhere else.

Look, I have been in the training center all week. I have been talking to ALL the pilots. It should be an overwhelming vote for USAPA. USAPA has EVERYTHING ALPA provides for less. (NOT CHEAPER, the SAME OR BETTER PRODUCTS).

WE WILL NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM IN ALPA. Don't believe me. When the vote comes out you will see.

I know EVERY ALPA PILOT thinks US AIRWAYS pilots can't make an intelligent, informed decision. They also think that the "founding" of a union should NOT be based on an arbitration award.

The award may be the lever, but the CHOICE is EVERYONE'S. The West have been trained to want the East to take an economic solution based on our attrition and our seniority. NEVER! When you understand that, SIR, you will be a true union man.

FACT: The West want their "East" brothers and sisters to pay with OUR seniority because the economic windfall between our two groups is too great and EVERY PILOT HERE knows that the company cannot and will not make up that gap. So they want accelerated seniority on the BACKS of their "brothers and sisters" here on the East. If that is UNIONISM, I would rather have NO UNION AT ALL!

Until then, our UNION looks forward to COMPETING with ALPA PILOTS in the marketplace. Just like all the OTHER independents do. With the price of oil climbing, that shouldn't be TOO hard. Delta and NWA pilots are already at each others throat. You soon will be too with whomever you merge with.

US Airways has over 3 billion in the bank and a line of credit that was established when the Delta merger was planned. We're NOT hurting!

If you think your seniority at United is more valuable than ours at US Airways, then we will ALWAYS BE COMPETING!

And that, SIR, is a FACT!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Good for you. So do I. Plus many other issues. I grasp a lot of things, but you're the one who posted that ALPA written propaganda about supporting me. I guess your convictions and mine differ.

That's good to know. Thank you for posting a message about support and then tell me you don't care. Sounds like all the other discontented ALPA people I have met over the years. But collective? I am part of that "Collective" so in reality you don't want me or us for that matter. Typical, so very typical.

ALPA collectively wants your dues money. Plus, they're really afraid that if this works that NWA and others will follow in short order. Those voting for ALPA had better make sure that there isn't a MAJOR assessment coming their way to pay for the ACPC and all the propaganda coming over the next several weeks. For ALPA, It's ALL ABOUT THE CASH!!

 

[767jetz]

The ONLY AGENDA you seek is OUR JOBS and you and your ALPA "brothers and sisters" would like nothing more than to see us FAIL so that would be MORE for your company and secure YOUR job.

Like I said... Sorry you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion. Just remember that is all that it is.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Like I said... Sorry you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion. Just remember that is all that it is.

Mine and +3,200 other "real US Airways" pilots. We are ostracized by the ALPA pilot community. It is not the way "I" feel. It is the way "WE" are treated. By you and 55,000 other real ALPA "Airline Pilots". Our seniority is NOT FOR SALE! Not my "opinion". IT IS OUR COLLECTIVE FACT!

It is a sad state when our West "brothers and sisters" want economically what we have all collectively known to be fundamentally a "principled" solution.

 

[767jetz]

Mine and +3,200 other "real US Airways" pilots. We are ostracized by the ALPA pilot community. It is not the way "I" feel. It is the way "WE" are treated. By you and 55,000 other real ALPA "Airline Pilots". Our seniority is NOT FOR SALE! Not my "opinion". IT IS OUR COLLECTIVE FACT!

It is your collective POINT OF VIEW. No one disputes that it is a fact that you have a point of view, or a position. I think that fact is well established. It is the reasoning and justifications of your point of view that are certainly not fact, and therefore are subject to debate.

No one thinks that seniority is for sale. However your definition of seniority to be DOH to the exclusion of all else, including the specific intricacies and realities of our chosen profession and chosen employers, is the subject of debate. The West is certain that their seniority is not for sale either. So are most of the other pilots currently involved in M&A discussions. And based on my exposure to that situation, I can assure you that with very few exceptions, a straight DOH integration is not on anyone else's agenda but yours. It is in this realm that you are most certainly in the minority throughout the pilot community. (And I include many of your own moderate, rational East pilots in that community.) I guess we will see how the vote turns out. But from what I understand it is hard to find a pilot that actually admits to voting for LOA93, yet it passed anyway. I have a feeling that once USAPA loses the vote, you will once again be hard pressed to find an East pilot who admits to voting for ALPA simply to avoid confrontation with pilots like you out on the line.

Did it every occur to you that your feelings of being ostracized are a result of your own behavior since the beginning of your merger and even before? Of course not. In your eyes everything is always someone else's fault. Never your own. Your suffering and sacrifices are no more righteous than anyone else's, just because you endured it longer. Your Length Of Suffering (LOS, get it?) is a result of your career choices, and not transferable to others just because you think you endured enough and are entitled to more.