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Amfa Ballot Count Questions

twuer said:
I know this is a UAL topic but I must intervene for a moment..........

Give me a freakin' break. Everyone knows that AMFA and it's almighty leaders were screaming BK.

What's worse is that now the union members at UAL got much worse of a deal plus more of their members on the street, AND they make less than us TWU members. You AMFA lovers cry and cry and whine, until it's almost nauseating, at the TWU concessionary package but when the shoe is on the other foot, hey, this concession thing ain't so bad.

HYPOCRITS!!!!!!!

There is NOTHING you can say to justify anything amfa does. They have proven themselves unworthy to represent anyone at this point. Delle and his cronies are in way over their heads. They have once again mislead the members.
[post="274696"][/post]​

What was your percentage of paycuts at AA? I already know that you guys gave up more vacation/sickpay/holidays than AMFA did under bankruptcy...
 
awayfrmitall said:
What was your percentage of paycuts at AA? I already know that you guys gave up more vacation/sickpay/holidays than AMFA did under bankruptcy...
[post="274700"][/post]​
But look at what also was lost under BK at UA. Pensions, ESOP (how much in previous wage concessions did this represent?), and retirement health care so expensive, it will be out of reach for many.
 
AMFAMAN said:
Any proof or just Team twu drunken babblings you over heard.
[post="274626"][/post]​
Actually, I remember seeing it on these boards. When BK was a possibility at AA, I clearly remember the AMFA supporters advocating it. They were pushing for it at AA and UA. The AMFA advocates rallying cry was FEAR FEAR FEAR.That was a terrible strategy. Look at the result . UA went in and they took everything from their employees with the blessing of the judge. My position was that UA stay out of bk so to limit the damage to employee compensation. I was also for them getting the ATSB loan to help them stay out. Now it is almost certain they will emerge after dumping a $10 billion pension obligation on the PBGC with significantly reduced debt and shedding unneeded facilities and aircraft, and Jetblue compensation. This will force the others, particularly AA, to match. As for AMFA, I will say it again, they are all talk. They capitulated at UA, they will capitulate at NW if they can thwart management's plan to permantly get them off the property, and if they were at AA they would capitulate also. As I said, UA will set the compensation template for everyone else. The hand writing is on the wall at AA and the others. I think AA will return for more late this year or early next. Hopefully by then I will be working somewhere else and leave
AA or just relegate it to a 16 hour a week part time job.
 
twuer said:
I know this is a UAL topic but I must intervene for a moment..........

Give me a freakin' break. Everyone knows that AMFA and it's almighty leaders were screaming BK.

What's worse is that now the union members at UAL got much worse of a deal plus more of their members on the street, AND they make less than us TWU members. You AMFA lovers cry and cry and whine, until it's almost nauseating, at the TWU concessionary package but when the shoe is on the other foot, hey, this concession thing ain't so bad.

HYPOCRITS!!!!!!!

There is NOTHING you can say to justify anything amfa does. They have proven themselves unworthy to represent anyone at this point. Delle and his cronies are in way over their heads. They have once again mislead the members.
[post="274696"][/post]​

One thing you forget to mention is that we have been living with these concessions for two years already. Thats two years with less holidays, less vacation and less pay.

The reason some may say it aint so bad is because one would expect that a company in BK would demand deeper cuts than AA got, but they fell just short of what AA got.

As far as the pension, what do you think is going to happen over at AA? They have the unions lobbying to defer payments. So as UAL is matching 5%, money that these guys can take with them that starts adding up right away, we have a pension that, if the company and unions get their way, goes unfunded until 2008 when the company says "either more cuts or no pension". So while UAL will be laying out 5% ,over at AA they will building up a huge liability.
 
aafsc said:
Actually, I remember seeing it on these boards. When BK was a possibility at AA, I clearly remember the AMFA supporters advocating it. They were pushing for it at AA and UA. The AMFA advocates rallying cry was FEAR FEAR FEAR.That was a terrible strategy. Look at the result . UA went in and they took everything from their employees with the blessing of the judge. My position was that UA stay out of bk so to limit the damage to employee compensation. I was also for them getting the ATSB loan to help them stay out. Now it is almost certain they will emerge after dumping a $10 billion pension obligation on the PBGC with significantly reduced debt and shedding unneeded facilities and aircraft, and Jetblue compensation. This will force the others, particularly AA, to match. As for AMFA, I will say it again, they are all talk. They capitulated at UA, they will capitulate at NW if they can thwart management's plan to permantly get them off the property, and if they were at AA they would capitulate also. As I said, UA will set the compensation template for everyone else. The hand writing is on the wall at AA and the others. I think AA will return for more late this year or early next. Hopefully by then I will be working somewhere else and leave
AA or just relegate it to a 16 hour a week part time job.
[post="274724"][/post]​
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A true TWUer will never let a few facts in the way of a good story attempting to blame AMFA.

The IAM was in charge when overhaul was raped at US Air and UAL.

The TWU was in charge when a series of concessions stretching back to 1983 continued to set lows for aircraft maintenance standards within the industry culminating in a concession set that is only now being reached by the rest of the industry after two or more sets of concessions and multiple bankruptcy filings.

AMFA capitulated at UAL? Get a grip, no one wearing TWU colors has the right to say boo to any other unionist, anywhwere.

IAM: "What's in it for us?"
AMFA: "Let the members decide"
TWU: "We'll Get'em Next Time"
 
amfa will never take responsibility for their "vigilanty" tactics.

I believe this is a direct quote from Delle himself.........."AA would be better off in BK".

But as I remember correctly, didn't come up with much of a convincing reason why!!!! Now look at where this attitude has gotten them.

Tell me what it is that amfa is doing to make this profession flourish, to keep it alive. All they have are threats.............empty threats. And I say it again, look where it has gotten them.
 
[qoute]One thing you forget to mention is that we have been living with these concessions for two years already. [/quote]

One thing you have forgot to mention is that AMFA said "NO CONCESSIONS"...BK is better...Mr. Owens himself came to MCIE trying to sway the members to accept AA's BK posture. Has anyone ever questioned Delle about his "turnaround" attitude? BTW...I told ya so...
 
Boomer said:
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A true TWUer will never let a few facts in the way of a good story attempting to blame AMFA.

The IAM was in charge when overhaul was raped at US Air and UAL.

The TWU was in charge when a series of concessions stretching back to 1983 continued to set lows for aircraft maintenance standards within the industry culminating in a concession set that is only now being reached by the rest of the industry after two or more sets of concessions and multiple bankruptcy filings.

AMFA capitulated at UAL? Get a grip, no one wearing TWU colors has the right to say boo to any other unionist, anywhwere.

IAM: "What's in it for us?"
AMFA: "Let the members decide"
TWU: "We'll Get'em Next Time"
[post="274792"][/post]​
Don't know where you get the idea that I am a TWU supporter. Just because I point out some of AMFAs flaws that automatically makes me a TWU cheerleader. The IAM AMTs at USAir are/were in the same position the UAL AMFA people were in. They both voted no the first time and then voted yes the next time in BK. When the USAir people chose to vote yes the final time, the AMFA people condemned them. I vividly recall Princess K's remarks regarding them. But when the AMFA members did the same thing at UA, the AMFA supporters come up with all kinds of excuses. They blame the previous IAM contract. AMFA should have welcomed the judge tossing out the entire IAM contract and negotiate a new AMFA one from scratch. However, forget UA, it is done. Now lets look to NW. They have a contract that AMFA has bragged about for the last few years. It will be very interesting what happens there next.
 
twuer said:
amfa will never take responsibility for their "vigilanty" tactics. 

I believe this is a direct quote from Delle himself.........."AA would be better off in BK". 

But as I remember correctly, didn't come up with much of a convincing reason why!!!!  Now look at where this attitude has gotten them. 

Tell me what it is that amfa is doing to make this profession flourish, to keep it alive.  All they have are threats.............empty threats.  And I say it again, look where it has gotten them.
[post="274848"][/post]​
--------------------------------------------------------------

If the Membership of AMFA at UAL decide to remove Dell, they can.

With the TWU, we have Little claiming that 3000 Members were not allowed to vote and that he would not sign off on the concessions without further ratification.

Brother, I was in the Courtroom the day that the TWU declared, before a sitting US Federal Judge, their ability to amend and ratify EVERY CONTRACT EXCEPT THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT.
 
twuer said:
amfa will never take responsibility for their "vigilanty" tactics.

I believe this is a direct quote from Delle himself.........."AA would be better off in BK".

But as I remember correctly, didn't come up with much of a convincing reason why!!!! Now look at where this attitude has gotten them.

Tell me what it is that amfa is doing to make this profession flourish, to keep it alive. All they have are threats.............empty threats. And I say it again, look where it has gotten them.
[post="274848"][/post]​

Yes, there would be a benefit if ‘all’ airlines were in BK begging their employees to ‘save the industry’.

What you do not understand scares you as thinking for yourself scares you.

We could have kept HMV’s in house as well but would not even consider OSM wages. OSM wages does not make this profession flourish either!

Spin it all you want, but the AMFA ‘membership’ made an informed decision. I was prepared to walk as much as I am ready to make it work.

Don’t be afraid of democracy and having individuals choose their own path.

B) UT
 
UAL_TECH said:
Yes, there would be a benefit if ‘all’ airlines were in BK begging their employees to ‘save the industry’.

What you do not understand scares you as thinking for yourself scares you.

We could have kept HMV’s in house as well but would not even consider OSM wages. OSM wages does not make this profession flourish either!

Spin it all you want, but the AMFA ‘membership’ made an informed decision. I was prepared to walk as much as I am ready to make it work.

Don’t be afraid of democracy and having individuals choose their own path.

B) UT
[post="275045"][/post]​
---------------------------------------------------------------

UAL Tech,

The very idea of an informed membership is terrifying to the TWU because they know that it will lead to their demise.

The TWU knows that actual "one-man" "one-vote" democracy is the means by which their end will come: that's why they spend so much time avoiding it.
 
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