Another good sign

[insp89]

You "complainers" need to get a life, you would complain if someone dumped in your lunch bucket.

I got a life, "retired" Thanks for asking though...

Yes, I would complain if someone did in fact dump in my lunch bucket. Would'nt you ?

I also complain when this company creates needless jobs after all the HUGE pay and benefit cuts some were required to make...

 

[cltbay1homie]

You "complainers" need to get a life, you would complain if someone dumped in your lunch bucket.

wouldnt you..or would you just chow down...and smack your csl,s on the brown trout.

 

[High Iron]

I just love it! We #### about a/c cleaning... the company does SOMETHING about it...and we complain about that.

Ah yes. "we gotta do SOMEthing". The worse reason for any action, be it policy or legislation. As was said, is it the RIGHT thing? Or the same old same old? Hence the debate.

Isn't it interesting that everyone feels like they can do everyone elses job better. No way!

Whose job better? The ones already charged with the task? Or yet another layer? Way.

For once can't we appreciate that our concerns were heard and that someone is doing something about it?

More abstract feel-good fluff already covered in previous quote.

Give everyone a break, and wait and see. And...stop being an armchair coach for jobs you are not fully informed about.

Give discussion a break. And...stop being a mindless hack or cheerleader for new positions you are not fully informed about.

So here we are again. Everyone of those in favor of these sinecures have thus far ignored the essential points offered by those against by either "we gotta do sumpthin..." or "we need clean planes" or mindless rah-rah horsehockey. Flawed and circular...they simply assume everyone against these sinecures is against clean aircraft, and that adding these sinecures equal clean aircraft...as if by their very existance.

The essential points, good ones raised by several, the best amongst them by 'Phantom Phixer' ( I urge you to read his post again )

Contract cleaners have their own supervisors, who act on their own audits, or when notified by company supervisors, who were in turn notified by othe employees. Wouldn't another layer make the contract supervisors superfluous?...and since the so-called need for more management is spurred by a supposed ineffective management...how do we know THEY will be any different?

Since we're talking about one position per ( major ) station, how is this ONE person going to personally audit and critique each A/C including RON's without requiring a cadre of moles? If they can't, how can they enforce standards? And if they can't enforce standards, why the need for these positions? Some airline management intern program?

Sorry but this just smacks of the same old same old committe driven BS. I'm sure we've all read the by now trite story about the canoe race between Company XYZ vs Company 123 where Company XYZ's solution's to their ever-increasing losing streak is to replace rowers with managers as they lose even worse.

 

[azjetdude]

Hi High Iron. Well, clearly you don't know me, but how could you! 🙂

If you did know me, you would know that "status quo" is never good enough for me.

You are right, I don't know that the three management positions are the right thing. But I know that at least something is being done to correct the situation (hopefully) only the future will tell if it is the right thing or not.

I appreciate that someone did something versus sitting around complaining like....humm...you?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I appreciate that someone did something versus sitting around complaining like....humm...you?

I'll jump in for high iron....

The problem is that most of us "whiners" are in no position to do anything. We don't hire the RON cleaners, we definitely can't fire them, supervise them, correct them, enforce standards on them, issue guidelines for them, etc.

All we can do is send comments up the chain - and hope something changes. So far the change is to add another layer to a management structure that has failed in the past. We've seen that tactic fail in the past, also.

Will this time be different - maybe so, maybe not....

Jim

 

[High Iron]

Hi High Iron. Well, clearly you don't know me, but how could you!

Completely irrelevant to the debate. You said what you said, and I responded. I can't help your inability to express yourself with cogent points.

If you did know me, you would know that "status quo" is never good enough for me

Again, how is this relevant to the debate? And no, I'm not allowing sophists like you to throw me into this group or that, conveniently pigeonholed by you into 2 groups, those that care, those that don't. It's almost as if you're hoping you'll win your argument due to some halo-effect from your supposed more positive than thou position. How do you know status quo is good enough for me or anybody else? Did it ever occur to you that this change can be retrograde? ( as so many have been previously ) You're simply assuming that "change"....any kind of change, HAS to be good. "Forget about the past and move on you" say the hacks. Well, we'd sure love to...believe me. Trouble is, just to many signs of the same 'ole, same 'ole.

You are right, I don't know that the three management positions are the right thing. But I know that at least something is being done to correct the situation (hopefully) only the future will tell if it is the right thing or not

Again with the "doing something" angle. Yeah, they're doing something, making themselves worthy heirs to the old hidebound system.

I appreciate that someone did something versus sitting around complaining like....humm...you?

Yet another attempt to claim some argumental high ground, but I'll tell you what ( and to turn the tables a bit ) You don't know me, or any of the rest of us against this featherbedding. Sitting around and complaining!? We all do our jobs to keep this place running you sanctimonious git. As Boeingboy added, it's not as if we control policy. We can only hope to send feedback through forums such as these, even as we all do our jobs and keep this place running. BTW, how else do you think this place HAS been running day to day through all this post 9/11 turmoil and hidebound management? Rah-rah juice?

 

[john john]

BTW, how else do you think this place HAS been running day to day through all this post 9/11 turmoil and hidebound management? Rah-rah juice?

Your are 100% right on with that statement management makes decisions and the front line employees deal with them and make them work.

 

[usramperTPA]

Outsourcing without oversight is a perscription for disaster and the crappy conditions of the planes is exihibit A in the argument.

Bob,
I agree 100% with ya on this one! Last weekend, here in TPA, our great new contract cleaners walked off the job at around 01:30 am. I cannot confirm it, but the rumor was that the vendor didn't give them their weekly paychecks and they walked. Anyways, several of our RON A/C were not cleaned and at 08:00 our Station Director was out on an A321 cleaning it so it could leave on time.
This was the 2nd day in a row that this particlar flight was not properly cleaned. The day before, the originating flight crew called for someone to come up on the A/C and empty the rear galley trash bins, at 15 mins prior to departure, now, this a/c sat in TPA all nite and was supposedly cleaned by the vendor, it ended up taking a delay due to a/c cleaning!!!
It just goes to show that when you bring in 3rd party vendors to perform such tasks, you get what you pay for.
In this case, the vendor couldn't even pay their own people and they walked.

 

[insp89]

Bob,
I agree 100% with ya on this one! Last weekend, here in TPA, our great new contract cleaners walked off the job at around 01:30 am. I cannot confirm it, but the rumor was that the vendor didn't give them their weekly paychecks and they walked. Anyways, several of our RON A/C were not cleaned and at 08:00 our Station Director was out on an A321 cleaning it so it could leave on time.
This was the 2nd day in a row that this particlar flight was not properly cleaned. The day before, the originating flight crew called for someone to come up on the A/C and empty the rear galley trash bins, at 15 mins prior to departure, now, this a/c sat in TPA all nite and was supposedly cleaned by the vendor, it ended up taking a delay due to a/c cleaning!!!
It just goes to show that when you bring in 3rd party vendors to perform such tasks, you get what you pay for.
In this case, the vendor couldn't even pay their own people and they walked.

ramper, It is obvious that this company gets what it pays for in regards to these pathetic contract companies.

However, What good will it do to add another layer of management fat ? This is not addressing the problem.

If the company is so determined on contracting these jobs out, It's upper management's responsibility to hire a competent utility contractor. [if one exists].

 

[700UW]

I believe the vendor in TPA is Jetstream who cleans the planes in CLT, the CLT operation is run by the former utility foreman. And I know someone from CLT set up the TPA operation.

CLT is staffed by many of the laid-off utility.

 

[AP Tech]

I agree with you about the compliance thing 100%. We all know the majority of the aircraft are cleaned on midnights, just wait and see what shift these "managers" are assigned too? It will probably be 7am to 3pm with weekends off? Does it make sense to you? He/she will sit at a desk and look over the SCO reports from the vendor? Not much oversight....

 

[AP Tech]

Believe me I hope so too!!!!!!

 

[fanlube]

As for overnight cleaning just remember CLEAN OR DIRTY DONE BY 12:30!!

 

[usramperTPA]

I believe the vendor in TPA is Jetstream who cleans the planes in CLT, the CLT operation is run by the former utility foreman. And I know someone from CLT set up the TPA operation.

CLT is staffed by many of the laid-off utility.

700,
You are correct about the vendor, it is indeed jetstream.
We in TPA know this former utility guy really well, he was also briefly a shift manager here in TPA back in '01 or '02. This contract operation SUCKS, plain and simple. It is a "puppy mill" operation. None of our laid off utility people would be caught dead working for this outfit. Our RON a/c do not look any better cleaned now then when utility or fleet was doing the cleaning. I've been up on these a/c in the morning dealing with angry flight crews that expect a certain amount of cleaniness on an originating a/c.

 

[tadjr]

Spoke with a member of management today and asked them if they had cleaned any planes today. 😉 They said that it wasnt a paycheck thing, but 2 new people and 1 trained employee coming to work and couldnt find a supervisor. The supervisor was already online working I was told and this is why they couldnt find them. Guess they didnt think about actually LOOKING for them! When the old employee didnt see anyone there but themself and the 2 new people, they decided they werent going to be doing their work AND training them on what to do so they left as did the new people. Sounds like some bright ones there. Supposedly they have had people come down from CLT to help out until they can get their act together here.