AP reports a pilot deal has been reached

[Ch. 12]

==========================================================

"DOG",

This "wait and see" is about $$$$ only !

If DL only got say $225M from Dalpa I FULLY expect WT
to "spin the livin' #### out of it, saying(perhaps) "that even though DL got $80M LESS, DALPA(hypothetically) gave up 500 mainline jobs"................(Or words to that effect)

I SIMPLY have been saying that DL WOULD NOT GET $305M in PAY CONCESSIONS.....PERIOD !!
Lets wait and see, how "THE PAY" shakes out !

NH/BB's

IF I'm wrong, I'll POST a HUGE RETRACTION !!

What is going to happen is that DL will have to work that much harder to try to generate more revenue to make up for the shortfall (and will have to hope that much harder that fuel won't spike again as it definitely looks like it is getting ready to).

History tells us alot and it tells us that mgmt never gets what it seeks in these deals and the unions never get what they seek. Hence a "compromise". But that is also why these negotiations are entered over and over. If DL needs more cost cuts down the road b/c they didn't get enough from the pilots, they will enter into negotiations again and you and all other "union = God" mentalities out there will say "mgmt is to blame b/c they should have gotten the larger concessions last time" when, in fact, it was impossible b/c the revolver was held to their head. Do you see now how this cycle goes? Of course not...you will still blame mgmt for "agreeing" to a substandard (in terms of profitability) agreement even though there wasn't much of a choice.

But yeah...let's see what the real numbers are. Nothing is in the books yet. But I can assure you that one thing that we DL employees (pilots and all others) have in common is that we are ready to mend the fences and move forward...recapturing the atmosphere that has made you and many others envious of the DL culture. It just chaps your a@@ that union and non-union folks can truly get along in some places of the world. Now maybe you can go back to trying to drive the wedge at AA and leave the DL boards?

 

[local 12 proud]

...recapturing the atmosphere that has made you and many others envious of the DL culture. It just chaps your a@@ that union and non-union folks can truly get along in some places of the world. Now maybe you can go back to trying to drive the wedge at AA and leave the DL boards?

Now was that really necessary? I think most posters on this board wish the DL employees the best and hope to see the carrier survive. I was personally shocked when DL filed BK, they were the last carrier I expected to do so. no need to be so smug!

 

[TheDog2004]

==========================================================

"DOG",

This "wait and see" is about $$$$ only !

If DL only got say $225M from Dalpa I FULLY expect WT
to "spin the livin' #### out of it, saying(perhaps) "that even though DL got $80M LESS, DALPA(hypothetically) gave up 500 mainline jobs"................(Or words to that effect)

I SIMPLY have been saying that DL WOULD NOT GET $305M in PAY CONCESSIONS.....PERIOD !!
Lets wait and see, how "THE PAY" shakes out !

NH/BB's

IF I'm wrong, I'll POST a HUGE RETRACTION !!

You would be correct that if it were $225 million that the company would come out looking like they needed to find the savings elsewhere. However, the WSJ is reporting that it's between $280-290 million with a raise to kick in sometime in the future (the post was on FlyerTalk to a subscription only article so I don't have details). Company's last request was $305 million. So DALPA did get the company to give up some ground, but in the end not much.

The WSJ seems to believe that Moak is going to have to convince the rank and file that he didn't cave at the last second.

This is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

You would be correct that if it were $225 million that the company would come out looking like they needed to find the savings elsewhere. However, the WSJ is reporting that it's between $280-290 million with a raise to kick in sometime in the future (the post was on FlyerTalk to a subscription only article so I don't have details). Company's last request was $305 million. So DALPA did get the company to give up some ground, but in the end not much.

The WSJ seems to believe that Moak is going to have to convince the rank and file that he didn't cave at the last second.

This is going to be interesting to watch.

==========================================================

"YO DOG",

Tell you what,
If DL got $280 out of Dalpa, I will call it a "draw", and wont debate the "missing" $25M.

Not bad huh, for a guy, who by YOUR standards, thinks I'm 100% "Jaded"

NH/BB's

ps,
As far as AA goes, well another of my Defined Benefit Checks, will be Direct deposited on 5/1, (and though I can't prove it), IF AA "pulls" our DB checks, you can "bet your A$$" that they'll be the LAST ONES to do so. 🙄

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

However, the WSJ is reporting that it's between $280-290 million with a raise to kick in sometime in the future (the post was on FlyerTalk to a subscription only article so I don't have details).

Apparently, neither does the WSJ. No one, including the DALPA pilots, have a copy of the TA yet. But we all know the media is so truthful that they must be correct. Geez, are you gullible.

This is an email from the union:


First of all on behalf of xxxxxxx, thank you for stepping forward and volunteering your time and energy toward the Hotel Commander job. As of this morning, there is a stand down order for the Strike Preparedness Committee. This is not a shut down order but a march in place order.

There is no release of any information out! Lee Moak will present it to the MEC next week. They are your elected officials and they deserve to hear it first. Next Thursday or Friday will be the earliest any details will be released. The company has said they will not release details so anything you read or hear is rumor until next Thursday of Friday.

Please stay in the loop and be prepared to pick up from this point if need be. We will keep our data base current and any information we get we will pass that on to you.
________________

Here is what my 'sources' told me they did agree to (let's see who ends up more right in the end, the WSJ or me!): 😉

No more pay cuts than already taken.
Some snapbacks in pay with productivity triggers.
Post bankruptcy stock.
A small number of 76 seaters for DCI.
will come on line with increased productivity.
Alpa proposed sick leave changes.

 

[Ch. 12]

Now was that really necessary? I think most posters on this board wish the DL employees the best and hope to see the carrier survive. I was personally shocked when DL filed BK, they were the last carrier I expected to do so. no need to be so smug!

local 12-

Thanks for your support. Sorry you did not see that it was aimed specifically at NHBB and that I didn't mean harm to AA but rather since NHBB has been trolling the DL boards trying to drive the wedge, I figured he should just return to his own company. It seemed like he has been envious. You and I seek the best for the industry and are compassionate no matter which carrier is struggling. But NHBB just touts that the company must shrivel up and die to prove a union point. After reading the same post worded slightly differently about 100 times, there comes a point when you have to tell somebody to "go home" b/c they truly aren't interested in the good of the industry but just serve as a constant advertisement...and a negative one at that. Just as you (at AA?) don't need me or somebody else coming to your boards constantly trying to create and deepen a rift among the employees there, NHBB is not right in doing the same here. Sorry again if you didn't see that that was just pointed to NHBB and not any ill will to AA itself.

-Ch. 12

 

[TheDog2004]

==========================================================

"YO DOG",

Tell you what,
If DL got $280 out of Dalpa, I will call it a "draw", and wont debate the "missing" $25M.

Not bad huh, for a guy, who by YOUR standards, thinks I'm 100% "Jaded"

NH/BB's

ps,
As far as AA goes, well another of my Defined Benefit Checks, will be Direct deposited on 5/1, (and though I can't prove it), IF AA "pulls" our DB checks, you can "bet your A$$" that they'll be the LAST ONES to do so. 🙄

DALPA opened at $140 million and agreed to $280-290 million (allegedly if the WSJ's sources are correct). Delta opened at $325 million.

If the WSJ is correct then it really looks like DALPA caved. They did get some concessions out of management - and the argument could be made that something is better than nothing - but it's still mostly what Delta was asking for.

 

[flyhigh]

...if no pay cut is included as suggested Deleted one of two things will occur:
1 - Delta will be back in less than a year for more
2 - Delta will have to re-file because without the cuts, they won't survive

 

[Ch. 12]

Here is what my 'sources' told me they did agree to (let's see who ends up more right in the end, the WSJ or me!): 😉

No more pay cuts than already taken.
Some snapbacks in pay with productivity triggers.
Post bankruptcy stock.
A small number of 76 seaters for DCI.
will come on line with increased productivity.
Alpa proposed sick leave changes.

Seeing as there is NO benefit for the company and only additional bonuses for DALPA members, I'd say that your "source" has provided you with more rhetoric (or you are using the guise of a "source" to create more). Somehow I don't see an agreement being made with mgmt simply saying "ok...you've taken enough cuts AND we will present to you some generous options for profit sharing without asking you to sacrafice any more". As usual...the truth lies somewhere in between but since the WSJ's viewpoint at least showed a compromise and your "source" makes it sound like DALPA ran over mgmt and got even more than they asked for, I'd say that "in between" probably lies closer to the WSJ. Yes...we'll see what it is in the end but it is ridiculous to say that there will be no more cuts, there are now snapbacks that weren't in place before, and stock will be doled out...oh...and ALPA may also win back some on the sick leave issue. A rational mind might say that yes...there would be snapbacks and stock but that DALPA would have to give something in order to attain those. I tend to think that mgmt would have rather let a strike happen than get none of the needed concessions and also create more costs in the near future.

Sorry I bit the bait but I do think that's what it was...pure bait.

 

[luv2fly]

DALPA opened at $140 million and agreed to $280-290 million (allegedly if the WSJ's sources are correct). Delta opened at $325 million.

If the WSJ is correct then it really looks like DALPA caved. They did get some concessions out of management - and the argument could be made that something is better than nothing - but it's still mostly what Delta was asking for.

You will need to wait and see the costing of the proposal. DL's 325 million didn't include the termination of the pension plan. Scope for example was included in the company's proposal as a no cost item. We'll see how they spin it now. Either side could use favorable costing methods to project that it somehow came out better than the other. The devil will be in the details.

 

[Busdrvr]

All my Deltoid buddies are with Luv. I don't think it was about the money (although taking another pay cut when you're already making 70-80 a year as a 40 yo pilot with 20 years of experience isn't what I'd call fun....). You can get money back. It was about those "no cost" items like scope. So while a paycut may look like the company won, the devil is very much in the details. Best of luck to all those in the Delta family. Hopefully both sides have a deal they can live with.

Chapt 12, Glad to see the management manpower cuts didn't hit you. While I disagree with a lot of you say, I certainly don't wish ill on you, and it's nice to see some in management who actually WANT to be in the business instead of being a reject from another industry 😉

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Ch. 12,

Cheap shot !!!

ALL I've EVER said is;


Dalpa would NOT give DL $325M
(If they gave very close to $300M, I'd print a retraction)

IF Dalpa DID'NT give $325M, than Where would the difference come from ??
(I have reasoned, that it would come from DL employees, who could NOT stop DL from doing so.

So in reality, this "jousting" is a matter of who's going to be (more) right ? YOU ??................Or ME ???

(For me) there is NOTHING personal in this.
Just some more REALITY, in this BRUTAL unforgiving business !!

Now for a real FRIGHTENING thought.

After the details come out, whatever the "repercussions" may be, I'm sure you and I will be going at it "hot and heavy"

This my friend, "may" be just the tip of the Iceberg


NH/BB's


ps,

On US Aviation, there is NO such thing as "your board, or My board"
(I KNOW, you KNOW that) !!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

...if no pay cut is included as suggested Deleted one of two things will occur:
1 - Delta will be back in less than a year for more
2 - Delta will have to re-file because without the cuts, they won't survive

You have been drinking and enjoying the kool-aid. The success or failure of DAL will NOT depend on the givebacks of its pilot group...rather it will depend upon its plan of business...hopefully one that does not rely on the failure of ANOTHER airline. Greeter.

 

[Busdrvr]

Here's an idea for DALPA. I'd demand that the pilot group negotiate a "10 times 10" program, meaning that DALPA should get stock awards to be given to it's nearly 8000 members that are greater than 10 times the stock options given to the top 10 execs. If DAL's management is anything like UAL, they'll get the whole company....

 

[WorldTraveler]

It is highly speculative to guess who side “won†since we don’t even know the terms of the deal…. But don’t forget that most of the items on the wish list were very subjective on how that could be accounted for…. ie sick time only has value if you use it – both DL and ALPA had very different assumptions about what sick time changes were worth; larger RJs – they are worth more to DL for their revenue generating capacity than to ALPA because ALPA surely has to realize mainline aircraft that are leaving will very likely not be replaced in the near future... productivity improvements which are necessarily very subjective….

Bottom line is that there isn’t a very clear bottom line for this contract… which may be exactly what both sides want. DL wants some clear improvements that they can show to their creditors and non-pilot personnel while ALPA wants the “concrete†items to be pretty small.

As I’ve previously posted, I wouldn’t be surprised if the agreement does not result in any further decreases in hourly pay rates.

DL won’t be back for any more cuts from the pilots unless they are on death’s doorstep….this was way too painful and disruptive to running a decent business in the eyes of the public.

Oh deleted and dead Fly,
Yes, we have discussed DL international flight pay before and I said then and will say now that DL and UA are both predominantly domestic airlines. If domestic flight attendants fair better at DL, the whole group does since most of DL’s flights and flight attendants are domestic.