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AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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I have five AA tickets for me and my family leaving Dallas tomorrow morning for a once in a lifetime cruise leaving port tomorrow afternoon. Do you think there is any reason to be concerned?

My brother has a flight on AA day after tomorrow down to Miami for a really important business meeting, and then he and his wife are going to a wedding for the weekend out in LA. Do you think everything will go as planned?

One time at band camp....
 
We can conclude that both East and West are compelled to use the legal system as the necessary (if not the only) venue to remedy SLI disputes which predate McCaskill-Bond. This is the levelest of level playing fields we will find. There are no voices on this field that can be drowned out by another’s. No numbers advantage. No prejudice. No emotion. And, by deed, we’ve mutually agreed to go this route. It’s at least nice to agree on something.

Independently, we’ll quietly and privately instruct our attorneys to produce and deliver compelling arguments on each our behalf. And, in the interim, we as pilots won’t have to look in the mirror, or at our wives, or at our children and regret that we hadn’t exhausted every possible alternative to achieve what we passionately believe is right.

What is abundantly clear in all of the above is that we are in agreement. From the lower courts all the way to SCOTUS, these will become the necessary venues for remedy. Any argument beyond those walls serves no purpose and will have no impact on any resolution. By exclusion, we’re also in agreement on that point. The decision is made to litigate. We can bottle it, shelve it, and years from now, uncork it to see what we’ve got. But how do we move forward from here? Can we move forward from here... even as we find ourselves confronted by new and immediate challenges?

Gordon Bethune once said, “We don’t put rearview mirrors on airplanes, because it doesn’t matter what’s back there. We have to start looking ahead.”

Looking ahead? Hmm…While the flavors of litigation are fermenting in that bottle on the shelf up there, do think it’s possible we might find a way to move ahead while at the same time agreeing to disagree? You guys are decent critical thinkers when you’re not fighting each other. Some, I’ve sensed, have extraordinary talents in this regard.

Say, we agree on something innovative. Let’s say we agree to insert a placeholder in this book and chapter of East/West SLIs. It’s not surrender, it’s a placeholder. While we’ve agreed to let that bottle of litigation juices ferment, we have nothing to do anyway. We’ve already agreed to let independent counsel do our arguing for us. We’ve apparently agreed that litigation is a necessary cost of doing business. And like any enterprise, we’d probably agree that mitigating business costs is a good thing.

If we subscribe to Bethune’s “move forward” plan, maybe we could etch something on this SLI placeholder – hold that spot, while we turn the page and have a look at the next chapter. Maybe, a temporary integrated seniority list.

Hmmm… The list would not be derived from the potentials of an emotionally charged negotiation, but from unimpassioned statistical methods and metrics – an amalgamation of: The Pre-Nicolau East offer, The Pre-Nicolau West offer, The Nicolau Award, and Wye River. The lists would be a snapshot of non-furloghed pilots at the time of merger, to include MDA.

What if we had, say… A three-man team of independent consultants who would use broadly accepted statistical methodologies: One statistician appointed by the East, One appointed by the West, And a third jointly approved to derive a statistical mean (blended) average of the two results. No bump, no flush, no fences. Equitable population of the etched placeholder list will be accomplished by attrition or voluntary preferential bidding. In the event of legal remedy, East and West would agree that a permanent SL will be repopulated using the same methodology of attrition or preferential bidding until it accurately reflects the legal remedy.

What are the possibilities…? Interim advancement during litigation. Economic reward, during litigation. Opportunity to collectively raise all standards of reward through a leveraged strength via unified negotiations with the company…or APA. East and West might agree that the placeholder list could be submitted as “the intrinsic list” in the event of a merger. A list that will contain an intrinsic legal remedy surviving a merger.

In the absence of an American Air Merger, an agreed upon (placeholder) list would allow LCC an immediate realized synergy of operations. An immediate economic benefit of synergies that should leverage benefit for a unified pilot group. We’ve all paid for it already. And by way of a united effort, we mitigate the expense of SLI litigation. East and West share a mutual benefit. A mutual resolution. Win – Win.

Lorenzo innovated, brainstormed, and exercised critical thinking to rape an airline in bankruptcy.

Siegel and Glass innovated strategy to break the will of labor and purposefully distress and then destroy pension plans.

Parker negotiated with other labor unions during that airlines exclusive right to formulate a POR without interference.

There are no conventions in this business. If you can imagine it, you can do it. No excuses.
 
We can conclude that both East and West are compelled to use the legal system as the necessary (if not the only) venue to remedy SLI disputes which predate McCaskill-Bond. This is the levelest of level playing fields we will find. There are no voices on this field that can be drowned out by another’s. No numbers advantage. No prejudice. No emotion. And, by deed, we’ve mutually agreed to go this route. It’s at least nice to agree on something.

Independently, we’ll quietly and privately instruct our attorneys to produce and deliver compelling arguments on each our behalf. And, in the interim, we as pilots won’t have to look in the mirror, or at our wives, or at our children and regret that we hadn’t exhausted every possible alternative to achieve what we passionately believe is right.

What is abundantly clear in all of the above is that we are in agreement. From the lower courts all the way to SCOTUS, these will become the necessary venues for remedy. Any argument beyond those walls serves no purpose and will have no impact on any resolution. By exclusion, we’re also in agreement on that point. The decision is made to litigate. We can bottle it, shelve it, and years from now, uncork it to see what we’ve got. But how do we move forward from here? Can we move forward from here... even as we find ourselves confronted by new and immediate challenges?

Gordon Bethune once said, “We don’t put rearview mirrors on airplanes, because it doesn’t matter what’s back there. We have to start looking ahead.”

Looking ahead? Hmm…While the flavors of litigation are fermenting in that bottle on the shelf up there, do think it’s possible we might find a way to move ahead while at the same time agreeing to disagree? You guys are decent critical thinkers when you’re not fighting each other. Some, I’ve sensed, have extraordinary talents in this regard.

Say, we agree on something innovative. Let’s say we agree to insert a placeholder in this book and chapter of East/West SLIs. It’s not surrender, it’s a placeholder. While we’ve agreed to let that bottle of litigation juices ferment, we have nothing to do anyway. We’ve already agreed to let independent counsel do our arguing for us. We’ve apparently agreed that litigation is a necessary cost of doing business. And like any enterprise, we’d probably agree that mitigating business costs is a good thing.

If we subscribe to Bethune’s “move forward” plan, maybe we could etch something on this SLI placeholder – hold that spot, while we turn the page and have a look at the next chapter. Maybe, a temporary integrated seniority list.

Hmmm… The list would not be derived from the potentials of an emotionally charged negotiation, but from unimpassioned statistical methods and metrics – an amalgamation of: The Pre-Nicolau East offer, The Pre-Nicolau West offer, The Nicolau Award, and Wye River. The lists would be a snapshot of non-furloghed pilots at the time of merger, to include MDA.

What if we had, say… A three-man team of independent consultants who would use broadly accepted statistical methodologies: One statistician appointed by the East, One appointed by the West, And a third jointly approved to derive a statistical mean (blended) average of the two results. No bump, no flush, no fences. Equitable population of the etched placeholder list will be accomplished by attrition or voluntary preferential bidding. In the event of legal remedy, East and West would agree that a permanent SL will be repopulated using the same methodology of attrition or preferential bidding until it accurately reflects the legal remedy.

What are the possibilities…? Interim advancement during litigation. Economic reward, during litigation. Opportunity to collectively raise all standards of reward through a leveraged strength via unified negotiations with the company…or APA. East and West might agree that the placeholder list could be submitted as “the intrinsic list” in the event of a merger. A list that will contain an intrinsic legal remedy surviving a merger.

In the absence of an American Air Merger, an agreed upon (placeholder) list would allow LCC an immediate realized synergy of operations. An immediate economic benefit of synergies that should leverage benefit for a unified pilot group. We’ve all paid for it already. And by way of a united effort, we mitigate the expense of SLI litigation. East and West share a mutual benefit. A mutual resolution. Win – Win.

Lorenzo innovated, brainstormed, and exercised critical thinking to rape an airline in bankruptcy.

Siegel and Glass innovated strategy to break the will of labor and purposefully distress and then destroy pension plans.

Parker negotiated with other labor unions during that airlines exclusive right to formulate a POR without interference.

There are no conventions in this business. If you can imagine it, you can do it. No excuses.

I can't believe I read even a sentence of that crap.

It's Nic, nothing else.

End of story.

You idiots have no standing against the Nic so litigation from your end is a non-threat.

Live up to your agreement and you won't waste my time reading that BS.
 
Say, we agree on something innovative. Let's say we agree to insert a placeholder in this book and chapter of East/West SLIs. It's not surrender, it's a placeholder. While we've agreed to let that bottle of litigation juices ferment, we have nothing to do anyway. We've already agreed to let independent counsel do our arguing for us. We've apparently agreed that litigation is a necessary cost of doing business. And like any enterprise, we'd probably agree that mitigating business costs is a good thing.

What are the possibilities…? Interim advancement during litigation. Economic reward, during litigation. Opportunity to collectively raise all standards of reward through a leveraged strength via unified negotiations with the company…or APA. East and West might agree that the placeholder list could be submitted as “the intrinsic list” in the event of a merger. A list that will contain an intrinsic legal remedy surviving a merger.

I'm here to steal your job, now can't we all just get along.
 
From the same place you got the "quote" of me saying only "...rambling on...." , complete with timestamp and quote box - for "authentication" I suppose. Apparently your sense of entitlement extends to having one set of rules for yourself and another for everyone else...The great Easthole can do as he pleases but not those opposed to him having what he feels entitled to...



Still can't get over being wrong can you. I guess another entitlement you feel deserving of is always being right...

Idiot!

Jim

What a sad and pathetic old man. A real shame...

Boeing Driver
 
I can't believe I read even a sentence of that crap.

It's Nic, nothing else.

End of story.

You idiots have no standing against the Nic so litigation from your end is a non-threat.

Live up to your agreement and you won't waste my time reading that BS.

Once again irrefutable proof of AWA hiring the absolute dregs of the available pilots. They do have big mouths though...

Boeing Driver
 
Graceson

I thought your post was thoughtful and original. Kudos on thinking outside the box. But you should pitch your idea to a less jaded audience.

I hope you do.
 
Trying to steal someone's job and then asking them for cooperation is not thoughtful.

Attempted theft is a felony. Let me know when someone ends up doing the perp walk. Most east pilots don't see it your way. Repeating yourself won't change their mind, but changing what you say and how you say it may help to make a difference.
 
Philosophical whitewash. I don't know Graceson from Adam, he may be sincere, just another joe swept up in the events of the last few years. But looking at the lowest common denominator, which one still has to do with usapa(they haven't even made amends for trying to trash real people's lives), all I can come up with is philosophical whitewash. Who knows, it might work. A lot of historical misdeeds have been overlooked and rationalized away. Kind of like the Indians.

Until some things are made right, I can't accept what Graceson us trying to do. No matter how well meaning he may be.
 
Most east pilots don't see it your way. Repeating yourself won't change their mind, but changing what you say and how you say it may help to make a difference.

I'm not out to change minds, just to set the record straight.

You try to take from the West what they are legally and ethically entitled to and then you them to cooperate.

Those guys have to spend their own money and time to keep you from doing it as well having their own dues money used against them.

Good luck with the cooperation.
 
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