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AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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I can't believe I read even a sentence of that crap.

It's Nic, nothing else.

End of story.

You idiots have no standing against the Nic so litigation from your end is a non-threat.

Live up to your agreement and you won't waste my time reading that BS.

Well I read the entire thing and it is a complete non-starter.

The east can stay on LOA93, and I will walk around campus knowing that not only do I make more money, I have 31 days of vacation a year, get paid for canceled flights and deadhead, get time and a half for re-route, have a 5:15 daily rig a 4:1 TAFB rig, a 2:1 duty rig, and the company buys my lunch and dinner, just to name a few.

No way on earth am I (and likely any West pilot) going to do any deals with a group of reneging malcontents lucky to have kept their job.
 
Once again irrefutable proof of AWA hiring the absolute dregs of the available pilots. They do have big mouths though...

Boeing Driver

Jealousy is one of my favorite emotions....... it reminds me to try harder.


Not everybody can catch a break like old Boeing Driver and get in through the backdoor at good ole AWA.
 
I'll give grayson points for trying but little else. Like every east "compromise" offer, his suggestion helps the east and hurts the west relative to the Nic, even apparently including the MDA pilots as active mainline. After all, what are the criteria used - a statistical integration of the pre-merger lists, pre-Nic proposals, Nic and Wye River (unsaid whether east or west Wye River), Notice that "fairness" isn't among the criteria, just something between the Nic and DOH.

Plus of course, the "synergies" for the company and leverage the pilot group can get depend on memorializing this "compromise" in a joint contract. Who wants to bet that once the "compromise" is in the contract it'll suddenly become not so negotible after all, unless USAPA should get court approval somewhere down the road to implement it's DOH integration? Even states is that this "compromise, temporary" list would be used in a merger - what merger partner's pilots are going to negotiate an integration if the US side can change it's list sometime in the future, upsetting a carefully constructed new combined list? So there'd be no turning back - a temporary "compromise" list would become the official list - the compromise is just another "Do what we easties want and everything will be fine" offer to the west.

Jim
 
No, the time to negotiate passed long ago. USAPA has to decide whether it wants to roll the dice with it's DOH scheme, or accept the Nic and move on. What it can't do is do nothing.

The courts know that the pilots hold the keys to solving this by voting out those who are impeding progress. No court should need to get involved just because the pilots are too lazy to solve their own problems.

If USAPA decided to present a DOH SLI in a TA and it passed, AOL would likely get an injunction and then the courts would have a reason to get involved. If AOL could prove a concerted effort to disadvantage the west by purposely delaying or derailing negotiations (which wouldn't be very difficult) then AOL and the west could seek substantial damages from USAPA.

No, the solution is the NIC, which as distasteful to some as it may be, is the only safe thing on the menu.
 
Not everybody can catch a break like old Boeing Driver and get in through the backdoor at good ole AWA.

Yummmm!...shiny bait in the water! 😉

I must fairly admit that such an incredible blessing was never even dreamed of by the folks who made up US = Eastern/PSA/Piedmont/USAir/etc, etc....and one can only marvel at how surely wonderful it may well be, to someday see those tragically less fortunate from American left equally awestruck from their astonishingly good fortune as well! 😉

...I'll fairly, further concede that "backdoor" and "good old AWA" do pair up well 😉
 
What a sad and pathetic old man. A real shame...

Boeing Driver

I'll tell you what's sad and pathetic. Supposedly mature, educated, logical adults using emotion as the basis for their actions. I certainly hope you don't fly the airplanes that way...

Jim
 
I must fairly admit that such an incredible blessing was never even dreamed of by the folks who made up US = Eastern/PSA/Piedmont/USAir/etc, etc....

And you'd be wrong as usual - at least PI had it's share of those who used the back door. No less than the founder's son was one of all of two pilots hired one year despite the no nepotism stance of PI. And he definitely wasn't the last.

and one can only marvel at how surely wonderful it may well be, to someday see those tragically less fortunate from American left equally awestruck from their astonishingly good fortune as well! 😉

Hmmm...I'll fairly, further concede that "backdoor" and ...the folks who made up US ... do pair up well 😉
[excerpts from your post]

Jim
 
I must fairly admit that such an incredible blessing was never even dreamed of by the folks who made up US = Eastern/PSA/Piedmont/USAir/etc, etc....and one can only marvel at how surely wonderful it may well be, to someday see those tragically less fortunate from American left equally awestruck from their astonishingly good fortune as well! 😉

Hmmm...I'll fairly, further concede that "backdoor" and "good old AWA" do pair up well 😉

How incredibly ironic that some of those same airlines made up the hiring pool for AWA...well throw in Ozark and later TWA/American and you pretty much described the folks who got to AWA through the interview process.

It was a jab at Boeing Driver...don't take it personal East. We all know you could have been hired at AWA the legitimate way if you wanted.
 
How incredibly ironic that some of those same airlines made up the hiring pool for AWA...well throw in Ozark and later TWA/American and you pretty much described the folks who got to AWA through the interview process.

It was a jab at Boeing Driver...don't take it personal East. We all know you could have been hired at AWA the legitimate way if you wanted.

1) Understood.

2) No worries nic. As shown in the preface; it was mainly for grins and venting. I know many good folks stand on both sides of the property, and sans the seniority debacle....well...most of us would have gotten along pretty well. This place gets too dang downbeat at times.... 😉
 
And you'd be wrong as usual - at least PI had it's share of those who used the back door.

Jim

Warning! TMI Alert! (cue siren)....and seriously; there's really just no need for you come out with that on a public forum!!!! 😉 "[excerpts from your post]" 😉
 
lynyrdskynyrd said:

"Philosophical whitewash. I don't know Graceson from Adam, he may be sincere, just another joe swept up in the events of the last few years. But looking at the lowest common denominator, which one still has to do with usapa(they haven't even made amends for trying to trash real people's lives), all I can come up with is philosophical whitewash. Who knows, it might work. A lot of historical misdeeds have been overlooked and rationalized away. Kind of like the Indians.

"Until some things are made right, I can't accept what Graceson us trying to do. No matter how well meaning he may be."





I joined AWA in the late ’80s. I’ve seen how the bankruptcy process has changed my airline…and my life. My colleagues and I are no strangers to sacrifice. You guys out east think you’re unique and alone in this regard?

Neither you or I have influence over the economy, the industry. You, out east, are equally vulnerable to the market forces as we are. Ideally, AWA would have grown, with employees sharing in a pre and post-retirement economic security. Ideally U would have sustained a quality of life for your pre and post-retirement economic security. Neither you are I are responsible for the economic and industry forces that changed our lives. These external forces became the great equalizer. For different reasons, both of us are where we are – equally devastated.

I’m building a home, you’re living in your home. A plane was hijacked and guided into both our properties. Now we look across the street at each other. There’s an understanding. We’ll both must begin by laying the first brick. No one has the advantage. An unfortunate sequence of events has become the great equalizer.

So to summarize… Through fate, fortune, or misfortune, we’ve joined with you to rebuild. But now, you demand the tangibles you no longer have, reaped from the very real tangibles we’ve worked, sacrificed, and earned.

But the frosting on this cake is that we agreed, in good faith, to abide by an arbitrator’s neutral and binding decision. Regardless of the means and methods, regardless of extenuating circumstances, we would have honored that agreement in good faith. But they did not, and will not…

Now, LCC has accepted our seniority list, delivered by ALPA. USAPA has delivered its own version of a seniority list, which is not the accepted list. Parker pleads that he is compelled by existing conventions to negotiate only with the current CBA. He holds the accepted seniority list in one hand while looking at USAPA’s list laying on the table. He confesses he cannot prudently move his corporation into the gunsights of one side or the other. Because the SLI is key in the valuations of any agreement, he cannot reasonably negotiate any section of the contract which might be affected in any degree.

Parker prudently hits the pause button until Silver responds to his request for Declatory Judgment. But now events have changed. A merger is within his reach. He’s sending mixed signals. He’s mumbling something about McCaskill-Bond, something about a three-way. He’s unsure.

To protect our rights and interests, we need to critically discern every conceivable scenario. We need to define the probability of the most likely scenario first.

With the gaining momentum of a merger, what is the most likely opening shot? What is the most likely event?
 
......

Parker prudently hits the pause button until Silver responds to his request for Declatory Judgment. But now events have changed. A merger is within his reach. He's sending mixed signals. He's mumbling something about McCaskill-Bond, something about a three-way. He's unsure......

AWE shucks! Doug & his management know exactly what they are doing. They are playing you like a finely tuned fiddle. If you really want insight into what the company's position, you should read the filings in Judge Silver's court for the declaratory action. The company lawyer mirrors Leonidas' position.

LCC has reaped 5+ years of the lowest & second to lowest pilot wages in the industry. Pretty stupid, huh?
 
AWE shucks! Doug & his management know exactly what they are doing. They are playing you like a finely tuned fiddle. If you really want insight into what the company's position, you should read the filings in Judge Silver's court for the declaratory action. The company lawyer mirrors Leonidas' position.

LCC has reaped 5+ years of the lowest & second to lowest pilot wages in the industry. Pretty stupid, huh?

Thanks, Cactusboy.

The first evennt is Silver's ruling. What is our calculated guess of the decisive language and scopeof of that decision. We can't afford to react, we must anticipate.
 
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