AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

The USAPA website says this:

"Due to the late hour and importance of this resolution, a MOTION to postpone until tomorrow at 9AM, August 23, 2012, was passed unanimously. "

So which is it?

Now there are saying it is postponed till 9:00Am DCA just changed their mind.

 

[Move2CLT]

4.5 years Bubba - 4 1/2 years you're Gunna wait even if your Hail Mary comes to pass.

Said the guy on LOA 93.

 

[A320 Driver]

And you will need that raise to pay the extra coulple of hundred in health care per month plus the other hidden goodies, poor westies health care will go up about 400 to 450 a month depending on family, Hey, I'm startying to think you the one who's daddy bought you a C-310 to build mutli time up, am I right.

I WISH!!!! Nobody in my entire family has ever owned an airplane... so no. Our insurance should stay close to where we are now on the East side.
You made a good point when you said they could have done better. There are parts of it that suck. The NAC was plain about that. But overall, the risk of not having a guaranteed seat at the table is a bad one. It's going to be like the last three presidential elections. Hold your nose and pull the lever. The lawyers and negotiator all agree that this was the best we would do.

Driver...

 

[Move2CLT]

Great letter from one of our pilots who understands. Permission to publish granted. I am going fishing.
8/ 22/12 The morning after thoughts. It was obvious to me after attending the BPR meeting yesterday that we did not require the assistance of a legal team or professional negotiator to draft this very poor tentative agreement MOU. We are giving them immediate {upon aa/lcc deal} code sharing, COC surrender because AA on paper will most likely be the successor, and min fleet for banking reasons that sounds like BS, all replaced with convoluted time leveling and other tricky items along with term sheet APA bankruptcy pay rate for 3 years, then parity with Delta.{we got them down from 6 years, it should be immediate.} I must point out that I left the meeting after lunch and did not hear more BS as I had already spent two vacation days at meetings which I feel were more important to me and my colleagues than my plans of saltwater fishing. This is a NO vote if it gets to me, for now everyone needs to write and call reps and urge them we can do much better and no rush, we have what they want. It was a good example of typical Tempe, nothing has changed as my President assures me.,
We are still being hammered by an opportunist management who will not recognize our value and contributions that made this deal a possibility. Attorney Wilder our prof. negotiator said to me personally yesterday that Parker is not a good businessman, he is basically using slave labor and calling himself a success. He said he wished he he could do the same with his law firm, but if he did not pay his people well and kept more money for himself, he would be out of business do to the inferior help. The hammer and shotgun techniques have a time limit by natural design. I think we are collectively allowing our company to make fools of us, as this tentative agreement shows. Good luck to us all.




8/21/12 Shortly after the meeting thoughts. The reason for min fleet size protection give away...Kirby says banks we borrow from do not like min fleet size, Dean could not figure out why that would be. I suggested they hire some corporate bankers for an opinion on that. Sounds like BS, Paul D'iorio was incredible explaining the tricks in most of the the language. No wonder Kirby wanted him gone.. I suggest that if anyone wants to understand the truth on this to contact him. He knew the subject better than anyone who spoke. This is a crap deal, with $10,000 which they said would be closer to 9,000. Nice payback for $10 billion in contributions. Professional negotiator Wilder seemed coached to sell the deal...take these protections, you will need them , AA is bigger than you and not historically nice to merged pilots. He also was pushing the time issue. Hurry and sign this, time is right now for a deal.. I spoke to him and he was not aware of our history, of LOA 93 my $100 grand a year pay cut. He said look what happened to the EAL pilots. I said I do not see the comparison. This guy may have a good resume, but I do not trust him. I told him to his face that there is no shortage of attorneys that tell their clients to take this deal and hurry. I asked him what we are paying him per hour as you know my salary, He would not answer. I am praying the bpr stops playing politics and does not bring this to the pilots for a vote. Code share, COC and min fleet size are huge and they want us to give it all up. We can do better. Gary seems to be in a hurry, must have a schedule to meet for Tempe.

Sounds like more crap you made up luv.

In the first part you're agreeing with Wilder and the second part you're beating up on him and don't trust what he's saying.

So which is it?

 

[Pi brat]

Now there are saying it is postponed till 9:00Am DCA just changed their mind.

Sounds more like someone stepped in and said, "Hold on, let's sleep on this" might be good idea, depending on the motivation. I bet the phone lines will be hopping tonight and I'd like to be a fly on the wall in certain watering holes.

 

[luvthe9]

. The lawyers and negotiator all agree that this was the best we would do.

Driver...

Ahhhh, those famous last words.

Sounds like more crap you made up luv.

In the first part you're agreeing with Wilder and the second part you're beating up on him and don't trust what he's saying.

So which is it?

Your an idiot, it just observations from another pilot. not me.

 

[A320 Driver]

If this MOU is rejected, or if it never happened, does the APA Term Sheet dictate pay and work rules at the POR date, or do we remain on LOA93/C2004? How about when the NMB declares we are all APA?

I've asked the union and await a response.

Not trembling, just keeping my balance on this fence.

OK, I'll make a try at this. If I understand this correctly, if we vote for the MOU, we go on the term sheet rates and conditions at the POR. If we do not, we will be on LOA93 until a joint contract is negotiated, how ever much time that takes. Parker has already stated he could run us separate. He's done that now for what, 7 years? So I don't doubt it.

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

OK, I'll make a try at this. If I understand this correctly, if we vote for the MOU, we go on the term sheet rates and conditions at the POR. If we do not, we will be on LOA93 until a joint contract is negotiated, how ever much time that takes. Parker has already stated he could run us separate. He's done that now for what, 7 years? So I don't doubt it.

Driver...

Instead of focusing on what we have to fear if we decline to accept the current offer of the current version of the MOU, why don't we ask what management has to fear absent the current version of the MOU.

The advocates of the MOU say the company fears having to pay us the CoC rate (else they would not be asking for that concession), but they do NOT fear paying us the term sheet rates. They also fear keeping the fleet at the current count of planes but they don't fear having unrestricted code sharing.

So to summarize, they fear paying us what our current contract would require in the event of a merger, and they fear having to keep the amount of airplanes our current contract requires them to have.

Parking brake still set.

 

[Phoenix]

No problem with that I just think they could have done much better.

I have no doubt the negotiators put forth a fine effort, and I am even more confident mgt cried a bunch of alligator tears about how they could not afford one more penny, and can't wait one more minute.

I commend the company for being brazen enough to ask us to give more to shore up the AA pension.

I am very disappointed that the company thinks we are so gullible.

 

[Claxon]

I have no doubt the negotiators put forth a fine effort, and I am even more confident mgt cried a bunch of alligator tears about how they could not afford one more penny, and can't wait one more minute.

I commend the company for being brazen enough to ask us to give more to shore up the AA pension.

I am very disappointed that the company thinks we are so gullible.


Worked every time in the past. I suspect the tremblers will sign on for another 3 yrs of b scale, claiming victory over the 6 yrs. Tell Parker parity immediately or pound sand. And 50k signing bonus and another 15 extra in the dc plan per year for 5 years.if he doesn t like it he can forget his dream job. They will dump him if he screws this one up. And he probably will. some of the dim bulbs on your board forget you are not in bankruptcy any more. The western division still has never seen a good contract in their lifetimes.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So to summarize, they fear paying us what our current contract would require in the event of a merger, and they fear having to keep the amount of airplanes our current contract requires them to have.

Parking brake still set.

First, management doesn't have to "fear" anything. As they demonstrated with the US/HP merger, it's easy to structure a merger to get around the CoC language.

Second, and I'm surprised that no one has brought it up, is that apparently the MOU dies if there is no merger. So any "concessions" are contingent on a merger with AA occuring. No merger, you get to keep enjoying LOA 93.

Finally, if there is a merger you've got the framework for a transition agreement in place. You've been so busy blustering about seniority integration that you've allowed Parker to get several moves ahead. Now you can either accept a seat at the table negotiating or you can serve refreshments to those at the table negotiating (while remaining silent) - US and APA.

Just like dumping ALPA and voting in USAPA, you/9-piece/claxmouth/etc think you've got the world by the tail. Just like you thought getting a DOH seniority integration was as simple as controling an in-house union. You keep making the same mistakes over and over and over...

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Instead of focusing on what we have to fear if we decline to accept the current offer of the current version of the MOU, why don't we ask what management has to fear absent the current version of the MOU.

The advocates of the MOU say the company fears having to pay us the CoC rate (else they would not be asking for that concession), but they do NOT fear paying us the term sheet rates. They also fear keeping the fleet at the current count of planes but they don't fear having unrestricted code sharing.

So to summarize, they fear paying us what our current contract would require in the event of a merger, and they fear having to keep the amount of airplanes our current contract requires them to have.

Parking brake still set.

Actually, I have a totally different perspective:

In the negotiations during the second bankruptcy, we reached a point where our advisors told us it gets worse from here. 5 members of the MEC roll called a vote to keep a company offer from going to the membership. We ended up on LOA93 and one of the arrogant bastards had the gall to blame it on the pilot group.

In the arbitration for seniority integration, our advisors and lawyer told us not to go down the path we were choosing. The lawyer told the MEC, you will either win big, or lose big, there is NO middle ground. We ignored them and ended up with the NIC.

Here we are again...same kind of deal. NAC says they will vote for it. Lawyers (2) tell us it would be better to accept it and our paid negotiator says it is as good as it gets. Anything else is a serious risk. He even goes on to say that time is of the essence.

Well, I am not taking a chance with this. We think we can play with the big boys and wave our swords when we like. We've tried that for over 6 years with nothing to show for it...NOTHING.

Enough already.

Driver

 

[luvn737s]

Plus 100 on this post!!!

 

[Move2CLT]

Ahhhh, those famous last words.
Your an idiot, it just observations from another pilot. not me.

That piece you put out was nothing but CLT FUD. And that's the exact stuff you specialize in fat boy.

No go sweat.

 

[Phoenix]

Actually, I have a totally different perspective:

In the negotiations during the second bankruptcy, ...

I'm sorry. You hit a brick wall when you start from there. We aren't in bankruptcy. DUI hasn't needed us for six years (there was no opportunity to form the world's largest airline until now). Now, after six years of low wages and an opportunity for him and his minions to plan for this day, he is suddenly in a panicked rush and needs our CoC so he can afford to pay APA pensions.