AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

I'm sorry. You hit a brick wall when you start from there. We aren't in bankruptcy. DUI hasn't needed us for six years (there was no opportunity to form the world's largest airline until now). Now, after six years of low wages and an opportunity for him and his minions to plan for this day, he is suddenly in a panicked rush and needs our CoC so he can afford to pay APA pensions.

WE asked for the MOU, NOT the company.

Driver...

 

[Piedmont1984]

OK, I'll make a try at this. If I understand this correctly, if we vote for the MOU, we go on the term sheet rates and conditions at the POR. If we do not, we will be on LOA93 until a joint contract is negotiated, how ever much time that takes. Parker has already stated he could run us separate. He's done that now for what, 7 years? So I don't doubt it.

Driver...

Let me put it differently. The BPR timeline of events indicates that USAPA first sent a list of concerns to management. Initially management did not respond, then there were several back and forth proposals and counterproposals which culminated in the MOU.

Suppose USAPA had taken the position that we will watch developments with interest from the sidelines. The company has not asked for our opinion so we won't give any.

Had we played the neutral third party, would the term sheet have covered us at POR? I don't see why it wouldn't. Yet, it sounds as though you think we will now be penalized if we reject an MOU which WE began the process of crafting.

 

[luvthe9]

Some of the boys are saying this delay was caused by so many pilots calling in and e-mailing on how much we are giving up on this MOU, and Parker has "plan B" to possibly sweeten the pot for us a bit. Should be interesting tomorrow, just another reason never to rush.

 

[A320 Driver]

I'm sorry. You hit a brick wall when you start from there. We aren't in bankruptcy. DUI hasn't needed us for six years (there was no opportunity to form the world's largest airline until now). Now, after six years of low wages and an opportunity for him and his minions to plan for this day, he is suddenly in a panicked rush and needs our CoC so he can afford to pay APA pensions.

I see you totally missed my point. It's OK. I have very low expectations when I come here.

Driver...

 

[luvthe9]

Second, and I'm surprised that no one has brought it up, is that apparently the MOU dies if there is no merger. So any "concessions" are contingent on a merger with AA occuring. No merger, you get to keep enjoying LOA 93.

Jim

That's because everyone knows that and a lot could care less if this merger goes or or doesn't, It's way past you bed time ask the nurse to put the Golden Girls on.

 

[A320 Driver]

Had we played the neutral third party, would the term sheet have covered us at POR? I don't see why it wouldn't. Yet, it sounds as though you think we will now be penalized if we reject an MOU which WE began the process of crafting.

I told you what I know. The term sheet is an agreement between the AA pilots and our management. Maybe someone else could weigh in on this. I think the MOU is our ticket to the term sheet at the POR. Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't know for sure.

Driver

 

[Piedmont1984]

I told you what I know. The term sheet is an agreement between the AA pilots and our management. Maybe someone else could weigh in on this. I think the MOU is our ticket to the term sheet at the POR. Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't know for sure.

Driver

If I hear back from Hummel, Bradford, or any of the CLT reps I'll post it here.

 

[luvthe9]

I starting to think the BPR will shoot this POS down tomorrow. Parker is under severe pressure (time wise)if he wants AMR.

 

[Phoenix]

WE asked for the MOU, NOT the company.

Driver...

We have been asking them to negotiate for YEARS... The fact that they are now talking is not a proof of weakness on are part, but merely indicative of the new and perishable circumstances that Parker desperately wants to capitalize on.

 

[luvthe9]

We have been asking them to negotiate for YEARS... The fact that they are now talking is not a proof of weakness on are part, but merely indicative of the new and perishable circumstances that Parker desperately wants to capitalize on.

ABSOLUTELY, IF HE WANTS TO SAY HE RUNS THE BIGGEST AIRLINE IN THE COUNTRY HE NEEDS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT MOU.!!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

I see you totally missed my point. It's OK. I have very low expectations when I come here.

Driver...

We are seeing it from a different departure point. You think the union fails worse when we delay a yes vote. I could care less what has happened in the past. We have never been in a position to negotiate with a frat boy that wants to run the biggest airline in the world.

 

[Piedmont1984]

With all that's been happening the last several days, I just realized I forgot to bid for October.

That really jars my preserves.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Does a Leopard that has finally 'arrived' change it's spots?

 

[767one]

Actually, I have a totally different perspective:

In the negotiations during the second bankruptcy, we reached a point where our advisors told us it gets worse from here. 5 members of the MEC roll called a vote to keep a company offer from going to the membership. We ended up on LOA93 and one of the arrogant bastards had the gall to blame it on the pilot group.

In the arbitration for seniority integration, our advisors and lawyer told us not to go down the path we were choosing. The lawyer told the MEC, you will either win big, or lose big, there is NO middle ground. We ignored them and ended up with the NIC.

Here we are again...same kind of deal. NAC says they will vote for it. Lawyers (2) tell us it would be better to accept it and our paid negotiator says it is as good as it gets. Anything else is a serious risk. He even goes on to say that time is of the essence.

Well, I am not taking a chance with this. We think we can play with the big boys and wave our swords when we like. We've tried that for over 6 years with nothing to show for it...NOTHING.

Enough already.

Driver

I think that there are too many unanswered questions at this point for me too vote yes. 10,000 dollars is not much not to mention would a pilot with less that 4 months to go even get that money. How about the sick bank payout for retirees? Even Davey dollars......has anyone asked if they are safe? Without the right answers to these questions I will vote no. I think these few questions are only the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure I'm not the only one with concerns.


Bob

 

[luvthe9]

Thoughts form another happy pilot .$10,000, $10,000........That's IT!!!!


Gentleman,



Just a few thoughts after watching the MOU presentation yesterday morning....



We are watching an implosion of our profession, greater than any, with the exception of giving our pension away. This single document is tantamount to suicide.



The Company and Hummel I might add, wants us to give up, Change of Control, Min fleet, and basically every provision in our contract including the TA and a couple other goodies, for what? $10,000.



They fail to bargain or arbitrate in good faith, they take us to court, they refuse to recognize our value, while they enrich themselves. And this Union President goes along with it. Gary, this doesn't move any process forward! This sets this profession, our profession, MY profession, on a continued downward spiral.



Let us be clear about the language in this thing. Synergies mean shrinkage! The MOU says once we hit 31 E190's(That means more than 31! IMO), we start dividing them up between AA pilots and us. How many more than 31? I couldn't guess except Embraer said in a recent article they plan on selling alot of them in the U.S.A. Are they addition A/C or replacements? I don't know. My guess is replacements. I also don't know what we will be paid or whether many of us will have jobs since there is no floor, no minimum fleet count.



You can devise any scenario you want, good or bad, out of this MOU. My take says they will downsize us by parking the remainder of our 737's, older Airbus's, AA MD 80's and replace them will lower paying E190 aircraft.



We don't know who is ultimately going to run a merged company, speculating that there will be a merger. If the ball is clearly in Horton's court, why hasn't Hummel talked to him before asking us to sign our careers away on this, what I call a 'chocolate covered turd'. Yeah, it's covered in chocolate, but it is still a turd! and Hummel wants us to take the first bite.



With every decision, there is risk. Businessman take risks when they have skin in the game. Parker has no skin in this game. It is a win win for him any way you look at it. Are you willing to risk everthing else we have worked for, for $10,000? Over the last 7 years, I have lost roughly $120,000 in pay parity alone. Giving away C of C, is like giving away roughly $96,000 a year! as a group 3 Captain.



I was shocked at some of Roland Wilder's remarks. "NOW is the time" he says. Don't trust the AA pilots he claims. Trust him! After all he is a professional negotiator! He got you $10,000 dollars! What more do you want?



I know we can't change the course of events that will occur in regard to any merger. What is disturbing is that this union acts like a 3 legged dog trying to bury #### on a frozen lake. Pretty pathetic!