AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

I just read the MOU. Hard to believe that ucrapa is willing to give up the COC that you easties so covet.

Overall looks like a big shite sandwich, however, it is more than ucrapa would have ever achieved without a merger with American.

 

[fatherabraham]

I think Hummel should approach Horton directly, discuss this and that, over coffee - just to explore some options which would be in the interest of the LCC pilots and gain leverage vis a vis Tempe.

Kinda like the APA did.

84,
Absolutely my thoughts!
Turn about fair play and Horton would pay for CoC instead of take take take.
FA

 

[Piedmont1984]

Except that the APA and other unions didn't approach Parker - Parker courted them and ignored USAPA and the other US unions. Note that Horton also hasn't approached any of the US unions. It's bad enough to fantisize that you can control world events but worse to not realize that the rest of the world is ignoring you.

I'd be willing to bet that Parker cares little how you vote on the MOU - he's going to keep pursuing the merger with or without you.

Jim

I have no illusions. No harm in our president broaching the subject of mutual interests with AA's president. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. In fact, if the MOU ends up being voted down, he may very well pursue such a strategy.

 

[A320 Driver]

I just read the MOU. Hard to believe that ucrapa is willing to give up the COC that you easties so covet.

Overall looks like a big shite sandwich, however, it is more than ucrapa would have ever achieved without a merger with American.

There are some problems, true. What you have to ask yourself is do you want a seat at the table to decide your future and do you want the pay and benefits from the term sheet automatically at the POR.

I'll repeat what I said yesterday about CoC. It is book rates for pay. We would have to litigate to get them. By the time we work through that process we would get book rates for the time it takes to get a JCBA, then we go down to those rates. Meanwhile, you are on LOA93 until you can win it in arbitration. We may never get them or we may have them for only a short time...who knows. The negotiator called them a poison pill with limited effect based on the proposed transaction.
It sure sounds good though until you start looking into the realities it takes to attain it.

Driver...

 

[luvn737s]

Phoenix, Luv, et.al. are making alot of noise, but it's easy to see through their straw man arguments. They want the status quo as it preserves their land grab by delaying the Nic. Everything else is just noise designed to distract.

However, look at where their "leadership" took us in the past and why they are neither worth listening to nor trusting. The McKee/Cleary gang never knew how to read management and are equally illiterate on this issue. They pretend to have leverage and would like you to believe that if you dressed up like the APA and voted NO like they did, you could recapture some of your credibility and influence.

Sorry, that ship has sailed. You now have one choice - vote Yes on this or let APA and Management run roughshod over our careers without so much as a "thank you ma'am". There will be no coming back for another bite of the apple.

Nicolau didn't allow it
The Midwest pilots didn't get it with Air Tran
The Frontier pilots didn't get it with Southwest
USAPA won't get it with APA/Parker.

What all of these folks have in common is a wild overestimation of their leverage. The east allowed it to be squandered by Cleary for some feel-good high fives.

So how do you feel now?

 

[767one]

Why do people want to argue over the degree of concessions. We are not in bankruptcy and have been on bankruptcy wages for YEARS and I am not interested in more concession.

Yeah......I agree. What is next? They start a new airline and put it in BK in 30 sec. and then merge us for more concessions? This MOU is a turd and even after you shine it up it isn't going to smell like shinola!


Bob

 

[Piedmont1984]

luvn

We can't know what leverage we have unless we 'press to test'. Parker wants CoC removed. What is he offering in return for waiving that specific language? If the $40 mil represents partial compensation for restructuring APA's pension plan then we are getting nothing for CoC.

Driver

You are correct, CoC is a poison pill. So it isn't meant to be activated and reflected in our monthly paychecks after a lengthy legal/aribration battle. But getting the language waived should be worth more than zero.

 

[700UW]

In regard to the COC, the AFA, and all three IAM CBAs have the same language, so whats Doug gonna do with the other four contracts?

Looks like Doug could be setting this up as AA acquiring US.

 

[fatherabraham]

There are some problems, true. What you have to ask yourself is do you want a seat at the table to decide your future and do you want the pay and benefits from the term sheet automatically at the POR.

I'll repeat what I said yesterday about CoC. It is book rates for pay. We would have to litigate to get them. By the time we work through that process we would get book rates for the time it takes to get a JCBA, then we go down to those rates. Meanwhile, you are on LOA93 until you can win it in arbitration. We may never get them or we may have them for only a short time...who knows. The negotiator called them a poison pill with limited effect based on the proposed transaction.
It sure sounds good though until you start looking into the realities it takes to attain it.

Driver...

Driver,

Understand your points and agree that all you say may happen regarding CoC.

Tis the time we live in with unscrupulous mgt led by deceiving lawyers and pathetic political government oversight.

So yes, we are currently the underdog . That said, I refuse to roll over and concede.
Knowing the morrally corrupt mgt strategy going forward means we have to go even further in protecting ANY language with mgt , NOT just concede on past negotiatiated language ( CoC).

FA

 

[BoeingBoy]

Driver

You are correct, CoC is a poison pill. So it isn't meant to be activated and reflected in our monthly paychecks after a lengthy legal/aribration battle. But getting the language waived should be worth more than zero.

Put it on Ebay or CraigsList and see what you get. Parker doesn't need CoC waived - it just gives him more options.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

I think Hummel should approach Horton directly, discuss this and that, over coffee - just to explore some options which would be in the interest of the LCC pilots and gain leverage vis a vis Tempe.

Kinda like the APA did.

Hummel or usapa have nothing to offer Horton. We don't sit on the creditors committee. We don't have a majority to vote or stop anything.

Why would Horton even consider talking to Hummel and usapa because the only thing that gets him is higher labor costs.

The APA and amr employees what Horton gone. Usapa would have no support in keeping Horton.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Put it on Ebay or CraigsList and see what you get. Parker doesn't need CoC waived - it just gives him more options.

Jim

If he doesn't need CoC waived, then he shouldn't be threatening to hold us hostage on LOA93 if it isn't. Or he should be willing to pay for having it waived if the options for him are significant.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

luvn

We can't know what leverage we have unless we 'press to test'. Parker wants CoC removed. What is he offering in return for waiving that specific language? If the $40 mil represents partial compensation for restructuring APA's pension plan then we are getting nothing for CoC.

Driver

You are correct, CoC is a poison pill. So it isn't meant to be activated and reflected in our monthly paychecks after a lengthy legal/aribration battle. But getting the language waived should be worth more than zero.

Driver,

Understand your points and agree that all you say may happen regarding CoC.

Tis the time we live in with unscrupulous mgt led by deceiving lawyers and pathetic political government oversight.

So yes, we are currently the underdog . That said, I refuse to roll over and concede.
Knowing the morrally corrupt mgt strategy going forward means we have to go even further in protecting ANY language with mgt , NOT just concede on past negotiatiated language ( CoC).

FA

Amen, how long do you think it will take to get book rates negotiating a JCBA, Perfect example is just how long DUI has dragged this out, besides to get to single carrier status to the point of negotiating a JCBA, could be a long time! As I said before we were tossed the day DUI and AA pilots negotiated behind our backs, Concede nothing!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Hummel or usapa have nothing to offer Horton. We don't sit on the creditors committee. We don't have a majority to vote or stop anything.

Why would Horton even consider talking to Hummel and usapa because the only thing that gets him is higher labor costs.

The APA and amr employees what Horton gone. Usapa would have no support in keeping Horton.

USAPA can offer Horton CoC and support a POR in which AA acquires LCC. In exchange, USAPA gets significant compensation for giving up CoC and Horton leaves with a golden parachute which he crafts. Leaving is probably on Horton's mind anyway, given the right price.

Or they can talk about golf and agree to keep it confidential. Then arrange for another coffee the following week and discuss yachts - and keep that discussion confidential too.

 

[fatherabraham]

USAPA can offer Horton CoC and support a POR in which AA acquires LCC. In exchange, USAPA gets significant compensation for giving up CoC and Horton leaves with a golden parachute which he crafts. Leaving is probably on Horton's mind anyway, given the right price.

Or they can talk about golf and agree to keep it confidential.

I hope no one believes the propaganda spewing forth from any source fed our way.....specially the monthly dog and pony show by DP.

Very very possible that Horton/DP have orchestrated ALL the play thus far.
Quite amusing his good ole boy antics if he weren't CEO.

Their job is to lower our comp package. Don't forget it.

FA